Why aren't Star Wars and Star Trek dominating the RPG market?

Soap Opera RPGs

TSR had a game in the late '80s based on "The Young and the Restless" I believe, though my memory doesn't serve me correctly, about the same time they came out with the "Rocky and Bullwinkle" roleplaying game.
 

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First off: Why is there no d20 Doctor Who? :cool:

Second: While I think WotC did an excellent job with SW d20, and Decipher did a fairly good job with Star Trek, I find ST a lot harder to find. And, as a store owner, I find it a lot harder to stock. These books have to be kept in print, people! :eek: I tried to get the creature book for ST through Diamond Comics Distributors, and even though they confirmed my order, I never got it. :]

I agree that ST and SW require special mechanics, but so does every world/universe if it is distinct. Call of Cthulhu needs madness. SW needs Force-based skills and powers. ST needs a ship combat system that includes hits to Decks A-E and targetting warp reactors. ST also needs a system (like the d20 SW) that takes into account eras of play.

I have run SW d20, and I would love to run a Trek game using the same basic mechanic. But I want a world sourcebook, and a creature sourcebook, that deal with everything from all of the series and all of the movies. I want era notes for time travel adventures, and NPC stats for the major players of all series (including Harcourt Fenton Mudd -- basically, if the character shows up in two or more episodes, or as a major character, I want the stat block). Data may have been the only android in Starfleet (up to the end of Next Generation, anyway), but there were definately other androids in Federation space. Arguably, one should be able to play an exocomp or a medusian. :)

(pause to catch my breath)

Anyway, if they built it, and kept it in print, then I'd be happy to buy it. And stock it. And sell it.

But I'd still take Doctor Who as my first choice.

RC
 

evildmguy said:
Alternity - Alternity, well, I like Alternity and think it is very good. I am curious if the person who didn't like the Alternity Starcraft was more upset about Alternity or the Starcraft implementation, which was rather terrible.

I wouldn't say "one" person.

It sucked in both terms, which is really hard to do. It didn't use the full Alternity rules, it used Alternity "Fast Play" on the assumption that most people who would buy it didn't have Alternity.

The ruleset was so weak you couldn't even convert it into full Alternity rules. But even if you didn't want to do so, they were to a large degree unuseable.

The rules didn't even contain Strength bonuses to damage or resistance ability modifiers.

It didn't contain character generation rules. Since I knew the Alternity system I could convert a human character easily anyway ( iad a player Ghost before I even heard of the product), but there were no rules for converting Protoss. I tried to figure out the stat spread for Protoss - no luck there. The ability scores varied so widely that I can't picture what kind of logic was used.

The pilot was overpowered in one scenario and useless in every other scenario.

There was virtually no information on the Blizzard universe - for instance, there were no flavor text or rules on Khaydarin Crystals. Since StarCraft is a game, there is little such information within the game :( and the designers didn't try to add anything. They were probably tired of calling Blizzard ever hour and saying "can I add this"?

The adventures were mixed, being not all that bad but not all that good either. Zerg actually being intelligent - good. Zerg being able to speak Terran (or whatever language) bad! Zerg using communications equipment - bad!

The most infamous scene was in the first adventure. You sneaked up on an infected space station and took the elevator inside. You get attacked there. Inside you encounter some more Zerg who - according to the adventure - do not immediately attack. The Zerg have some Terran prisoners which might explain why they'd pause - if they were too bloodthirsty the prisoners would all be dead!

You had a few options. You could try to bluff them into thinking you are prisoners, even though the Zerg don't understand your language and you're armed! And some of you are Protoss, whom the Zerg have not taken prisoner. But never mind that, the Zerg already know you killed some of them on the way down.
 

Raven Crowking said:
First off: Why is there no d20 Doctor Who?

There was one way back but it wasn't very good. One player would be a time lord and the other players would be the companions. The power discrepency was huge. Kinda like if you sat down to play a superhero game and your buddy got to play Superman and you were stuck with Jimmy Olson.

Yeah, yeah. There are lots of elite roleplayers who would love that. But being a sidekick instead of an equal isn't everyone's bag.
 

BiggusGeekus said:
There was one way back but it wasn't very good. One player would be a time lord and the other players would be the companions. The power discrepency was huge. Kinda like if you sat down to play a superhero game and your buddy got to play Superman and you were stuck with Jimmy Olson.

Yeah, yeah. There are lots of elite roleplayers who would love that. But being a sidekick instead of an equal isn't everyone's bag.

One of the things I did in my Doctor Who homebrew was make all Time Lord characters "round-robin". Your character wasn't the Time Lord, just that particular incarnation. When the Time Lord regenerated, someone else took over.

(Note to RPG manufacturers: If ever you make a Doctor Who d20, feel free to use that idea!)

RC
 

S'mon said:
Is this a modern or generational phenomena? I don't remember anything like it in the '80s, when I got into RPGs (AD&D, Star Wars d6, Paranoia et al). I suppose you could say I was a 'fan' of my favourite games systems in some sense, but nothing like the uncritical appreciation of say TSR or WEG that seems associated with the fanboy concept seemed to exist in the hobby back then.

Well I'm guessing I got into the RPG scene at exactly the same time you did more or less (sounds like we're talking later half of the 80s, no?). There was fanboyism then too, there's possibly more now, because there's a deeper rift in the psychology of gamers.

This is shown in the big three companies: On the one hand you have the comfortable majority of gamers, who are into D&D/D20, and like a kind of "standard" play.
Then there's the White Wolf crowd, a definite but sizeable minority, who believe roleplaying has to be "deep" (which is often synonymous for pseudo-intellectual and angsty), and the "fanboys" therein despise D20 as the "top dog". Those are not ALL WW fans, the "fanboys" are basically the contrarians who got into RPGs in the first place because they're a subculture, and now they want to be in a sub-culture of a sub-culture, meaning that D&D is WAY to mainstream to be "deep" in their eyes.
The third would be the Palladium crowd, which has a disproportionate crowd of fanboys. Interestingly enough, most people who play other RPGs tend to dislike the Palladium system, and some dislike Palladium itself because they were either burned by Palladium's practices as a company (late/never releases) or Kevin Siembieda's personality in particular. But the ones who are with Palladium and loyal to it are often rabid fanboys in that they will play almost nothing else. Palladium is on the other side of the spectrum from White Wolf; its still playing in the 80s, with a real sense of powergaming being just fine, and realism not being as important as huge guns. Whether the powers-that-be like to admit it or not, its also staying around because the rest of the RPG industry abandoned that sort of play, and the people who like it, and in the process lost a lot of younger roleplayers who were originally attracted to that kind of play.
I'm no Palladium fan myself, but I've always said the industry could stand to learn something from Palladium about how to recapture the "lost generation" of 12-15 year olds to turn around the decline in the gaming population. I think the industry has more to learn from Palladium than from White Wolf, frankly.

Nisarg

edit: I forgot to mention the one other class of fanboy, the "miniscule game no one has ever heard of" fanboy. These are possibly the funniest kind. They will go on boards and insist that "Obscurity: the Obscuring" is the best RPG in existence even though it only sold 2 copies and no one plays it besides himself, the author, and the author's dog Nigel.
One can include in this a few variations, like the Forge fanboys, who think RPGs like Sorceror and My Life with Master (?) are the future of gaming and Ron Edwards (designer of Sorcerer) is the most brilliant mind ever in roleplaying who will lead us all to the promised land; and the "Nobilis should replace Amber" people at the Guardians of Order Amber forum, who feel that replacing Amber Diceless Roleplaying's original rules with the Nobilis rules-set would be a great idea, even though Nobilis has only been a minor success in the industry for about the last two years while Amber is the most successful and long-living diceless RPG in history (with Amber-dedicated conventions in like four different countries to boot).
 
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Nisarg said:
Well I'm guessing I got into the RPG scene at exactly the same time you did more or less (sounds like we're talking later half of the 80s, no?).

Lessee... I started roleplaying age 11 in '84 and got my 1ed AD&D DMG, MM & PHB age 12 in '85... got my first White Dwarfs ca 1987, though*, so yup. :)

*couldn't resist running off to check collection - first one I ever bought was number 84, actually in December 1986, 6 issues before they started ruining it. So I fled back in time & collected back issues from number 30 on...
 

Brilliant piece Nisarg, thanks - I can feel myself becoming a Nisarg fanboy. :)

I guess when I got into it at the tail end of 1e AD&D, AD&D was still by far the most popular game but was widely criticised even by those who played it for eg sexism, racism, monty-haulism, etcetera. I heard of the White Wolf craze in the mid '90s but only from afar, I wasn't playing tabletop RPGs regularly at the time. The modern D&D fanboy phenomena seems most akin to the crazes for WotC games like Magic: The Gathering & Pokemon; centred on obsession with hard-set rules, competitive gaming - "stat builds" especially, more than actual play - & to an extent the collection of items - publications, miniatures and such. The "stat build" thing especially seems weird to a child of the '80s, I largely missed 2e so I didn't encounter the original TSR kitbooks for optimising PCs.

edit: oh, and I was all set to be a Ron Edwards fanboy earlier this year after reading Sorcerer & Sword, until I went to the Forge and saw Edwards in action... :\
 
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Star Trek systems

BTW: For those looking for Star Trek with more ubiquitous rule systems than LUG/Decipher, there is a conversion for Traveller T20 rules somewhere on the web (startrekrpg.net?). For the GURPS inclined, there is GURPS Prime Directive which is set in the "alternate" original series universe of Star Fleet Battles. I've also believe the RPG Objects supplement "Blood & Space" is emminently usable for a d20 trek homebrew.
 

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