OSR Why B/X?

[overgeeked]

Thank you! I missed (most of) this community but every once in a while I need to force myself to take a break.

It's understandable. The community can be...a lot...sometimes.

I feel like B/X and OSE are being embraced by the people new to OSR as much as the old guard. Which I find interesting, considering that the game plays so viciously and procedurally. Sure, there are fewer rules, but it does have rules and many of them are essentially arbitrary. I am wondering what folks today -- whether new or old -- find attractive about that.

I can't answer for them, but I started with B/X. I think a fair amount of the attraction is that very brutality and procedure you mention. My experience is 5E players become dissatisfied with the ease of that game and start looking for similar but more challenging games. The players who also want something a bit more structured find OSE attractive. There's also a lot to be said about wanting to play a game that's a game instead of dealing with 5E as a story-focused game that a lot of people seem to push. It's also a self-perpetuating thing. OSE is popular because OSE is popular with a wide range of old-school gamers, so when new people come in, they are pointed to OSE. Like 5E with newcomers to RPGs.

For my part, if I were to run something OSR it would definitely be 2E (core only) with eventual inclusion of the War Machine and Domain rules from BECMI.

Despite my love of so many 2E settings and a lot of the rules of 2E, I've never actually played it. I think my ideal version of D&D would be something as simple as B/X with a bit of updates from BECMI, RC, AD&D, and 2E. Also port in dis/advantage because I love that so much more than piddly little modifiers. But then, there are so many actual old-school, OSR, and NuSR games already out there doing almost exactly what I want. Black Sword Hack. DCC RPG. WFRP2E. Pirate Borg. Lair of the Leopard Empresses (Monsters! Monsters! / Tunnels & Trolls). Classic Traveller / Cepheus Engine. Etc.

 

[Parmandur]

It'd be a lot closer to C&C, honestly, to which 5E has a lot of design similarities, let's say, before then piling on additional complexity.

True, but 5E wasn't a pressing issue in 2004. Today, making a new OSR game? Different scene.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

True, but 5E wasn't a pressing issue in 2004. Today, making a new OSR game? Different scene.

1E was my main entry point (with the caveat stated above that we didn't use most of the rules and were effectively just playing B/X with 1E add-ons), and I have a hard time seeing why I'd try to bring out a 1E retroclone in 2023. OSE and others have it covered on the rules end already, and if the goal is just the tone, there are a lot of products, from a lot of companies, that provide that (obligatory shout-out for the Dungeon Alphabet and Monster Alphabet).

I know the RPG industry is a great way to turn a large fortune into a small fortune, but if I wanted more 1E vibes in the current game sphere (and I always do), I would be putting out something like the Knock magazines rather than a full standalone system.

 

[Parmandur]

1E was my main entry point (with the caveat stated above that we didn't use most of the rules and were effectively just playing B/X with 1E add-ons), and I have a hard time seeing why I'd try to bring out a 1E retroclone in 2023. OSE and others have it covered on the rules end already, and if the goal is just the tone, there are a lot of products, from a lot of companies, that provide that (obligatory shout-out for the Dungeon Alphabet and Monster Alphabet).

I know the RPG industry is a great way to turn a large fortune into a small fortune, but if I wanted more 1E vibes in the current game sphere (and I always do), I would be putting out something like the Knock magazines rather than a full standalone system.

All true, and unlike 20 years ago the old books are available in fresh copies. OSE seems to be appealing largely due to a clear and fresh presentation of the rules.

 

[deganawida]

All true, and unlike 20 years ago the old books are available in fresh copies. OSE seems to be appealing largely due to a clear and fresh presentation of the rules.

And Errol Otus art. Can’t forget the Errol Otus art.

 

[Cruentus]

I can't answer for them, but I started with B/X. I think a fair amount of the attraction is that very brutality and procedure you mention. My experience is 5E players become dissatisfied with the ease of that game and start looking for similar but more challenging games. The players who also want something a bit more structured find OSE attractive. There's also a lot to be said about wanting to play a game that's a game instead of dealing with 5E as a story-focused game that a lot of people seem to push. It's also a self-perpetuating thing. OSE is popular because OSE is popular with a wide range of old-school gamers, so when new people come in, they are pointed to OSE. Like 5E with newcomers to RPGs.

This. And I'll add that over the 40 years we've been playing as a group (with new players and old players), we like the asymmetrical core design of the game. If you're out travelling, then there are random encounters. Those can be anything from a herd animal to a dragon. Sucks if you're 1st level (potentially). We grew to dislike the "everything should be about this tough so that a party of 4 can handle it" that leveled as you did.

We also like the procedure-based nature of things, as it makes the DM into more of a 'referee', for us, who handled what "fate" gave us. It was up to us as players to figure our way out of it using the tools we had to hand. Some of it is running. Some of it is clever thinking. Not that those things don't happen in 5e, but B/X and OSE are sort of built around a totally different set of expectations for the DM and the players.

It does work a lot better in dungeons and travelling point to point, but we're using it in Greyhawk sandbox, and we're okay with the pace of play (and it is overall slower: from managing resources, travelling, and a longer time to level up), compared to 1-16 in a month of game time.

My son, who learned on 5e, likes OSE much better. Simpler for him to DM, he and his friends can do ToM with less "worry" about all the rules, actions, bonus actions, reactions, etc. Or, at least that's what he tells me. But my son and I have also played 5e, OSE, Rogue Trader/Dark Heresy, and other systems as they've struck his fancy (like Vampire The Masquerade). I'm sure he mixes it all together when they play.

 

[Parmandur]

And Errol Otus art. Can’t forget the Errol Otus art.

That always helps in my book, true.

 

[overgeeked]

My son, who learned on 5e, likes OSE much better. Simpler for him to DM, he and his friends can do ToM with less "worry" about all the rules, actions, bonus actions, reactions, etc. Or, at least that's what he tells me. But my son and I have also played 5e, OSE, Rogue Trader/Dark Heresy, and other systems as they've struck his fancy (like Vampire The Masquerade). I'm sure he mixes it all together when they play.

This is the way.

 

[cbwjm]

I was in a B/X game and brought my RC. Someone made a comment of, "I hate that book".
Yet it was used three times to look up odd ball things not in B/X during the game.

Someone hates one of the greatest DnD books of all time? I seriously love the RC, I started playing with it and return to read it from time to time. I ended up using its mass battle rules as the basis for mass battles in a 5e game. I loved that it is a complete system in a single book (minus levelling as immortals, but I don't feel like that's a requirement for most games).

 

[Dire Bare]

B/X is, well, older than BECMI and AD&D. What could be more Old School than that?

The White Box, I suppose. But there was a reason D&D moved past that version of the game rather quickly!