Critical Role Why Critical Role is so successful...

[Celtavian]

Critical Role is as successful as it is because Matt Mercer is probably the best DM in history who spends countless hours developing NPCs, the world, plots. combat scenarios, and every aspect of the game. He runs the game in a way that makes it easy for anyone to play effortlessly incorporating rules as needed for any situation without slowing the flow of the story. Couple that with a charismatic and creative group of voice actors as players who can bring characters to life at the table on a growing media site focused on gamers and geeks with an established audience ready to eat up such material and you have Critical Role.

It's one of those right place, right time, right people scenarios. Matt and his crew likely could have taken most games and created a monster.

I started watching Critical Role by happenstance when I was playing 5E. I kept watching Critical Role because Matt Mercer and his crew are awesome at RPGs. Even after I quit playing 5E and grew bored with the game, I kept watching Critical Role.

Sam's improvised songs were hilarious and awesome at the same time. I missed his bard when he left. Laura and her bear were cool and Laura brings the heart and creativity. Grog was hilarious. Taliesin and Liam are the more serious players bringing that bit of drama and intensity. Marisha has moments.

And Matt Mercer is the greatest DM I have ever seen. He is without compare.

I'd watch the Critical Role crew play almost any RPG. I'd love to see them do a space game or a Shadowrun type of game. It would still be awesome.

 

[Celtavian]

What I don't understand is how anyone could think Pathfinder doesn't compete against D&D...

They're geared towards exactly the same niche of exactly the same genre, with a similar emphasis on mechanically balanced combat, and sharing maybe 95% of the same heritage, tropes, and history...

Just baffling.

But even if you somehow manage to ignore all that, D&D is the behemoth of the ttrpg world - every other game competes with D&D to some extent.

Some more, some less. Maybe Powered by the Apocalypse, or Maid the RPG, are examples of the former.

But if there's a single game that is in the latter category, it's Pathfinder. Paizo is, by far, WotC's most direct and most prominent competitor.

If you understand business, then you understand there can be multiple players and all can still be profitable. Paizo has never been as profitable as Wizards of the Coast. And certainly can't compete against Hasbro.

There's such a thing as a second player. Like car companies with a big dog like Toyota and then some smaller players like a Nissan. They go after different segments of the same market.

PF and D&D are in the same market. D&D went after a certain segment of the market looking for a simpler game and made a great game that caught on.

Paizo went, "We don't have the resources to go after D&Ds market directly. So where can we compete? How about we listen to our fans and make a game that our fans helped build. Then we can retain our PF fan base by cleaning up the D20 system and making it more balanced, playable, while still having the customization and crunchy bits our player base expects."

You seem like an intelligent guy. I am sure you can understand when a company deliberately builds a game to go after a different segment of a market as no one game, even as popular as D&D 5E, will capture all of the market. Paizo made a very purposeful decision to make a game based on the feedback of their player-base. That is who they are targeting. It is not a direct competitor to D&D as it is targeting a different segment of the RPG market. If it can maintain it's place as the 2nd big player in the fantasy RPG market, then it is doing fine.

Just like game like GURPS go after another segment of the market and so on and so on.

We will see in time if it is a successful strategy.

 

[MarkB]

If you understand business, then you understand there can be multiple players and all can still be profitable. Paizo has never been as profitable as Wizards of the Coast. And certainly can't compete against Hasbro.

There's such a thing as a second player. Like car companies with a big dog like Toyota and then some smaller players like a Nissan. They go after different segments of the same market.

PF and D&D are in the same market. D&D went after a certain segment of the market looking for a simpler game and made a great game that caught on.

Paizo went, "We don't have the resources to go after D&Ds market directly. So where can we compete? How about we listen to our fans and make a game that our fans helped build. Then we can retain our PF fan base by cleaning up the D20 system and making it more balanced, playable, while still having the customization and crunchy bits our player base expects."

You seem like an intelligent guy. I am sure you can understand when a company deliberately builds a game to go after a different segment of a market as no one game, even as popular as D&D 5E, will capture all of the market. Paizo made a very purposeful decision to make a game based on the feedback of their player-base. That is who they are targeting. It is not a direct competitor to D&D as it is targeting a different segment of the RPG market. If it can maintain it's place as the 2nd big player in the fantasy RPG market, then it is doing fine.

Just like game like GURPS go after another segment of the market and so on and so on.

We will see in time if it is a successful strategy.

There's also the fact that, as D&D grows, it grows the RPG market in general. Pathfinder probably has a larger customer base now than they would have done without 5e's success.

 

[Scott Christian]

Arguably the Dungeoneer's Survival Guide deal with Exploration, too, but neither of those was WotC. ;-)

They weren't? This whole time I thought they were. Huh. Who knew? Well, you did. So thanks for teaching me something today.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

They weren't? This whole time I thought they were. Huh. Who knew? Well, you did. So thanks for teaching me something today.

It was made by TSR. Wizards of the Coast didn’t exist back then.

 

[Scott Christian]

It was made by TSR. Wizards of the Coast didn’t exist back then.

Oh... I consider (and I know I shouldn't) them to be the same. As in an official product.
Thanks for the clarification.

 

[robus]

I'd watch the Critical Role crew play almost any RPG. I'd love to see them do a space game or a Shadowrun type of game. It would still be awesome.

Agreed, and I’d say that’s because the one thing they hold in highest regard is engagement with the world (i.e, exploration) and that would translate to any RPG.

 

[CapnZapp]

If you understand business, then you understand there can be multiple players and all can still be profitable. Paizo has never been as profitable as Wizards of the Coast. And certainly can't compete against Hasbro.

There's such a thing as a second player. Like car companies with a big dog like Toyota and then some smaller players like a Nissan. They go after different segments of the same market.

PF and D&D are in the same market. D&D went after a certain segment of the market looking for a simpler game and made a great game that caught on.

Paizo went, "We don't have the resources to go after D&Ds market directly. So where can we compete? How about we listen to our fans and make a game that our fans helped build. Then we can retain our PF fan base by cleaning up the D20 system and making it more balanced, playable, while still having the customization and crunchy bits our player base expects."

You seem like an intelligent guy. I am sure you can understand when a company deliberately builds a game to go after a different segment of a market as no one game, even as popular as D&D 5E, will capture all of the market. Paizo made a very purposeful decision to make a game based on the feedback of their player-base. That is who they are targeting. It is not a direct competitor to D&D as it is targeting a different segment of the RPG market. If it can maintain it's place as the 2nd big player in the fantasy RPG market, then it is doing fine.

Just like game like GURPS go after another segment of the market and so on and so on.

We will see in time if it is a successful strategy.

Just "let's not compete with the market leader head on" is in itself not a commendable business strategy. You seem to give Paizo a pass simply because their game isn't like 5E, as if that is enough of a reason.

When PF2 comes across as not having learned a single lesson taught by 5E's success, I doubt their strategy. When even a bit player like EN Publishing realizes that Paizo has inadvertently* left the space as Hasbro's satellite and as the provider of "D&D just how you like it, but more", the alarm bells should ring.

*) I know they quite deliberately wanted to sever their dependency on WotC. I don't think they wanted to leave the clear No. 2 spot in the D&D sphere.

I think "advanced D&D" is a much much larger potential market than whatever market Paizo gunned for. I think Level Up! has a real shot at overshadowing PF2, relegating that game to the outskirts of the D&D sphere, where lots of other games have gone to slowly wither away...

And what market did Paizo gun for exactly? Their game certainly isn't anything like d20 or Pathfinder 1, cleaned up or not. It's far too obtuse to attract the new breed of gamer ushered in by 5E. As I see it, it's a market for gamers attracted by 4E-style presentation and approach to magic items, which is a very dodgy market given how that game tanked. It plays much better than it looks, but my best shot at defining that market is "a brand new segment only the curious even finds, much less sticks to".

 

[Wishbone]

Agreed, and I’d say that’s because the one thing they hold in highest regard is engagement with the world (i.e, exploration) and that would translate to any RPG.

I found it very frustrating when they tried new systems like Savage Worlds and viewer suggestions screwed with their ability to do just that without leaning into memes or other silly behavior.

 

[Scott Christian]

I think "advanced D&D" is a much much larger potential market than whatever market Paizo gunned for. I think Level Up! has a real shot at overshadowing PF2, relegating that game to the outskirts of the D&D sphere, where lots of other games have gone to slowly wither away...

Really? We know most branches of RPG's really are just different settings. Very few try to be original.

But to say their is a larger potential market share for an advanced D&D, might only be true if it has the D&D name. Paizo is crunchier than D&D. But D&D seemed to increase their market share by making things less complex, not more. So I would think growth is actually in the opposite direction.