D&D 5E Why D&D is not (just) Tolkien

[Sacrosanct]

My memory of what was in which early editions is pretty vague. That illo of early D&D orcs looked like kobolds to me, so I assumed they were smallish and easily beaten.

Nah. Pretty much the same difference as now. If you look at a 1e orc and see it only has 8 hp and does 1d8 damage, you may think it's really weak. But you need to look at apples to apples, and not compare it to a 5e orc. I.e., yeah, that looks weak, but a 1e fighter had 10 hp and also did 1d8 (maybe +1 or +2) damage. And kobolds only had a couple HP and did 1d4 damage. Whereas 5e versions are much more robust, but the ratio is pretty much the same. If that makes sense.

 

[Salamandyr]

A 1e orc with 8 hit points (max for it's hit die) would be considered powerful. Most orcs would have 4 or 5 hit points. Still enough to have a 50/50 shot at surviving the first sword blow, but not likely to withstand 3.

They were about par for a 1st level fighter with no above average stats. The fighter could generally be expected to have better AC and 1 or 2 more hp.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The key thing about 1e orcs was that they were 1 HD. Less than 1 HD (goblins, kobolds) and a 1e fighter could mow through at 1 attack/level/rnd...

 

[Shadowdweller00]

I don't see much need to provide further evidence, since you just linked it yourself: Aragorn uses healing magic like Joe Fischer's original ("the hands of a king are the hands of a healer" in Return of the King), and the Palantir use is clearly copied in that OD&D class.

Further evidence? You don't have any. You seriously imagine that Aragorn is the first or only woodsman-hero to use a poultice? As opposed to, say, Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd: "V- Oh. Why do you act as a priest or healer? F - Healing is part of the singing skald's art." (The Snow Women, 1970). How about all those times Aragorn teleported? Tamed giants? Slung magic missiles? Yeah, I didn't think so. You have no idea what you're talking about, no ability to differentiate Tolkien from non-Tolkien.

Joe Fischer's wanted to play Aragorn, h and Gygax worked out the details and published it in Strategic Review, which you just linked. Other influences get involved over time, but "I wanna play Aragorn" is the root, plain as day.

Still wrong and still stupid. Aragorn was one source of inspiration behind the Ranger class, but it was far from the only one.

 

[Sacrosanct]

FWIW, through the joys of the internet where everything is kept forever, we have confirmation from Mike Monard (who went to high school with Joe Fischer and was part of Gary's RPG group) that Joe (who was 18 at the time) wanted to play Aragorn. Thus, the ranger.

 

[Parmandur]

Further evidence? You don't have any. You seriously imagine that Aragorn is the first or only woodsman-hero to use a poultice? As opposed to, say, Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd: "V- Oh. Why do you act as a priest or healer? F - Healing is part of the singing skald's art." (The Snow Women, 1970). How about all those times Aragorn teleported? Tamed giants? Slung magic missiles? Yeah, I didn't think so. You have no idea what you're talking about, no ability to differentiate Tolkien from non-Tolkien.

Still wrong and still stupid. Aragorn was one source of inspiration behind the Ranger class, but it was far from the only one.

Well, the primary one: a supernaturally powered Cleric/MU/fighter with a wilderness theme wouldn't have been called a Ranger sans Tolkien. Aragorn has preternatural healing powers, turns undead and summons an army of undead with his blood magic, among other things. Certainly Fischer imagined what he wanted to see further up the power curve, but the primary influence is obvious.

A story published in 1970 does rather fall under suspicion of being influenced by a 16 year old international bestseller, I am afraid.

 

[Parmandur]

The art differences of Kobolds and Orcs from the Goblins is the result of artist error: Gygax didn't intend dog like Kobolds, or pig like Orcs. Both were originally more humanoid, like Orcs and Snaga in Tolkien.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

FWIW, through the joys of the internet where everything is kept forever, we have confirmation from Mike Monard (who went to high school with Joe Fischer and was part of Gary's RPG group) that Joe (who was 18 at the time) wanted to play Aragorn. Thus, the ranger.

That would be evidence. Good. Show me?

 

[Shadowdweller00]

A story published in 1970 does rather fall under suspicion of being influenced by a 16 year old international bestseller, I am afraid.

Yeah, because we all know the chronological order of influence doesn't matter. Absurd, if you know anything about Fafhrd as a character (ice-dwelling barbarian type). And one example amongst many.

 

[Parmandur]

FWIW, through the joys of the internet where everything is kept forever, we have confirmation from Mike Monard (who went to high school with Joe Fischer and was part of Gary's RPG group) that Joe (who was 18 at the time) wanted to play Aragorn. Thus, the ranger.

Doesn't shock me, and I've probably seen it elsewhere: it's not like that was subtly done in the Strategic Review article. Not Sherlock Holmes material.