D&D General why did they transform the Barbarian into a Raging Monster ?

[jmartkdr2]

yeah I would rather do away with barbarians then keep them as the rage mechanic class

You have an issue with the entire rage mechanic?

 

[HammerMan]

You have an issue with the entire rage mechanic?

well yes and no.

I love the "take half damage when in this state" idea and the "deal extra damage in state" idea, I just want it diviorced from the barbarian concept. I could take this a step or two father and have it be even more generic, but a rage not class related but maybe feat realted would work in my mind.

 

[MGibster]

I don't remember where I'd read it but something along the lines that, to Romans, all the foreign languages just sounded like they were saying 'bar bar bar barbarbar bar' - which always makes me imagine Muppets.

I'm pretty sure they were listening to the Beach Boys when they came up with bar bar bar.

 

[ersatzphil]

No: "The Romans used the term barbarus for uncivilised people, opposite to Greek or Roman." meanings changed over the ages, but I'm pretty sure that the romans never called the greeks barbarians.

I mean, Plutarch's Parallel Lives spends quite a bit of time trying to argue that Rome was the rightful inheritor of everything that Greece was.

edit: As does Cicero's Republic, now that I think of it.

 

[HammerMan]

I'm pretty sure they were listening to the Beach Boys when they came up with bar bar bar.

barbra annnnnnnnn

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

The Phoenix on the Sword is an example where he does so (though of course, that was also originally a King Kull story), and there are a few other instances. But generally if Conan goes into a rage, he's cornered and in dire straits, and is seeking to sell his life at as dear a cost as possible to his foes.

While I agree that it's the original reason, I probably need to read Conan again but I don't remember him flying into blood rages that often.

 

[Mannahnin]

Fighter/Rogue/King

While Conan is obviously the inspiration of the Barbarian (esp. Gygax's writeup in Dragon Magazine and 1E Unearthed Arcana, with all his magic hating and armor eschewing abilities), over time other real-world historical legends were drawn upon to be included in the class. Raging in particular was part of the Celtic and Viking traditions/lore. Also, the prestige classes/subclasses since 3.X are obviously leaning more into those "uncivilized nature warrior" tropes.

I don't have my 1E material anymore - anyone know if Raging was an ability for either the Conan writeup or 1E Barbarian? If so, all Conan had to do was rage once in the source material, and Gygax would see that as justification for the ability.

Ahem: "With an oath the Cimmerian heaved himself up on his feet, his blue eyes blazing, his dark scarred face contorted. Rage shook his soul, but desire for the taunting figure before him hammered at his temples and drove his wild blood fiercely through his veins. Passion fierce as physical agony flooded his whole being, so that earth and sky swam red to his dizzy gaze. In the madness that swept upon him, weariness and faintness were swept away." The Frost Giant's Daughter.

It took 1 minute to find, because it isn't uncommon.

Yup. But Gygax didn't include a berserk mechanic for them, despite Berserkers being a monster type with a mechanic going back all the way to OD&D, two different optional/NPC classes in Dragon (issue 3 for OD&D, issue 133 for 1E), and a troop type in Chainmail before that. Gygax apparently read those prose descriptions of battle fury as not being synonymous with berserk. I will say that Conan definitely has a lot of "fight with cunning" moments all through those stories too.

Berserkers became a regular PC option with 2E kits, and then got folded into the main Barbarian class in 3E, as folks have noted. And I think folks are right that the WHY is because WotC wanted to expand the archetype to be more than just "Conan, the Class". Norse Berserkers (and Irish, like the mythical Cuchulainn, or Slaine from 2000AD) share some definite thematic ground with barbarian warriors from uncivilized lands ala Conan and so many pulp knock-offs, and yeah, the berserk ability gives greater mechanical differentiation from Fighters.

All true.
But then again look at 4e, in which you could get a Champion and a Barbarian. Additionally look at Savage Worlds Beasts & Barbarians which does one of the best Conan expy's I have seen in a long while. They have pirates, as well as barbarians for class options.

Just sayin'...YMMV.

Sure, the "lots of classes" approach is valid too. It's just not NECESSARY to represent Conan.

I have taken away the rage stuff, and allowed them to pick Extraordinary Training, sort of like Gurps Martial Arts, same for all classes.

If they purchase magic, then they can cast / use magic in the normal way.

That sounds cool. In the Original Edition Delta OD&D house rules, as I recall all Fighters get a single Feat at 4th level, and one of them is a berserker rage ability.

 

[Rogerd1]

That sounds cool. In the Original Edition Delta OD&D house rules, as I recall all Fighters get a single Feat at 4th level, and one of them is a berserker Ability.

I have also been messing around with stat values to get the comic book hero feel too.

Str 10 = Normal = 100 pounds
Str 13 = Athletic = 400 pounds
Str 15 = Olympic = 600 pounds
Str 18 = Peak = 800 pounds
Str 20 = Enhanced = 1,000 pounds

Although the above is strength, it would also go across all other attributes. So Charisma 18 would be Lex Luthor sway the masses despite4 being shown to be a total liar.

I know this is off topic, so apologies everyone.

 

[Rogerd1]

Back on topic, why not do something like this?

Trance: The user can enter a state of altered awareness allowing a purer focus during battle. This focus enables them to ward of fear and intimidation, withstand greater levels of damage; as well to increase the amount of damage that they can inflict.
• Calmness
• Fury / Rage

 

[Micah Sweet]

True,

In response to a comment about morality - lots of things in history are consider amoral today. Most, probably.

True, But you can't let that stop you from studying and appreciating the past for what we can learn from it.