why do folks hate gnomes?

[beta-ray]

Find it kinda sad that any character "race" has to be HATED.

Gnomes are fine with me. I might never play one or incorporate them into my games (then I again I may), but I don't hate them. Nor do I find them irritating. Tinkerers? Yeah in a way I can see that (some tales say Leprechauns are the tinkerers, some say Elves, and others say Gnomes)... Comedic? Maybe that's just how the taller races see them?

*Shrug* Just don't see the "hate"

 

[zyzzyr]

I agree with the other posters - I have typically disliked gnomes. However, the ideas in this thread have convinced me to put them back into my campaign.

I'm going to use the idea of them being masters of knowledge, and change their favoured class to druid. My gnomes will be of the earth, very connected with nature in all its permutations (far more so than elves or dwarves), and be masters of ancient knowledge. They will be "rarities" in that you rarely see them in cities and such, as they tend to keep to themselves, or at least, their lifestyle tends not to place them in cities.

thanks for the ideas

zyzzyr

 

[Gez]

As was said by Carpedavid, both BiggusGeekus@Work and Klaus - thanks, you two - have just persauded me to allow gnomes in my campaign world again. You two don't seem to think you had novel ideas, but from my perspective, they're great ones.

Hey, guy, BiggusGeekus was just saying he didn't find any niche for gnomes, and I answered him, and then when Carpedavid quoted my post, he removed the "Originally posted by Gez" part.

Man, I do feel like a gnome there. Forgotten again, same old story.

Originally posted by Me, Myself, and I:

BiggusGeekus@Work:

I don't see the role that gnomes occupy.
Do they need to ? Do anyone need to ? (Yes, it's a role-playing game !)
OK. They are the wise people who know. Your characters need to find the complete prophecy about so-or-so ? The library with the fabled lore they need is run by gnomes.

That's how I always seen them, and always will. Remember that the very word "gnome" comes from the greek "gnosis", which just mean... Knowledge. Mythically, gnomes were the little fey who knew every secret of nature and alchemy, and that alchemists associated with Hermes.

Note the +2 racial bonus to Alchemy back that. Yeah, they speak about good sense of smell, wadada, wadada. But then, why don't half-orcs this bonus too ?

Their inquisitive mind put them to search every lore they can. Gnome communities are often secluded and calm, just for the same reasons places of knowledge are secluded and calm.

Their ability to speak with animals derive from this innate wisdom they have. And their free cantrips just prove that every gnome is at least a little bit a wizard.

Are they magically inclined, like elves?
Yes. Even more than elves. Elves are inclined to learn magic because they love it. Gnomes are inclined to perform magic because it's just in them.
Are they mechanically inclined, like dwarves?
No ! They're smart enough to understand mechanisms, but as a whole, they are not attracted by that. Go back, you awful krynnish tinkers ! You sully the name of gnome ! Begone, may have you never existed !
Are they short & happy, like halflings?
Yes, they're short. But remember that everyone is short, save for humans and half-orcs. Gnomes happen to be between dwarves and halflings in the shortness rating.

When I think of the other core races I see a place for them.
You're blind, then.



By the way, don't be afraid of getting a little out of context. Every race are used out of context.

The lawful good dwarves seem to be always depicted as wild dirty frantic berserkers, with a genocidal attitude toward their racial enemies (orcs, goblinoids, and frequently elves). That ain't in context to me.

The chaotic good elves who love to study magic and thus have a favored class of wizard seem to be always depicted as distant, haughty, hierarchical creatures of pure light and magic, living in a centralized empire, obeying millenia old traditions, and giving a paramount importance to bloodline -- especially purity of bloodline -- while considering all other race to be at best, harmless annoyance, at worst, foes that must be eradicated; and somewhere in the middle, slaves.

Halflings of today are a strange cross between hobbits and kenders, with a small amount of gypsie thrown in. As a result, they are seldom used as described.

Greugna !

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Short sightedness and bad precedent

There are two reasons that people tend to avoid Gnomes above all other player character races. Shortsightedness of Players and DM's is one of the main reasons. Poor fiction precedent is the other reason.

Starting with the poor precedents, take a look at all of the existing races. Humans are a non issue, and not really bound by any precedents. In fiction, humans fill every role, from hero to villian, from warrior to wizard. Nearly all of the other races fill an accepted role. Elves are always the immortal, over proud elder race. Half Elves tend to be nearly as flexible as humans, but often end up in a Tree hugger role (Druid or Ranger). Dwarves are the taciturn, loyal, and steadfast fighters. Half Orcs are the Strong Back and Weak Mind types. Halflings have it almost as bad as Gnomes, but are accepted as capable theives.

What Archetype does the Gnome fill? Outside of Dragonlance and Spelljammer novels, no one really uses them. Those that do use them often do so just to avoid using the word 'dwarf'. I cannot think of one book that had one serious gnomish hero, but plenty of stories where they are background NPC's.

The shortsightedness of Players and DM's is the result of the above. When someone throws together a campaign world, if they have anything resembling the archtypical setup, you will have at least one token elven kingdom (reclusive, keeps to their selves, distrusts humans) and one token dwarven kingdom (One lost dwarven citidel with stories of great wealth, and a few isolated kingdoms beneath the mountains, limited trade with humans). Its easy to just slam them in some odd part of the world. If the world has Orcs, you then can have half orcs. You have already justified every race in your campaign world except for Gnomes and Halflings. In most worlds, there are no real halfling kingdoms, but the halflings tend to function mostly unimpeded within human society, so they become a non issue.

But what to do with the gnomes? Many DM's dont care, and will say they exist, but not elaborate beyond that (easy to do with Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance). In custom campaign worlds, they are often disallowed because they do not fit nicely in the DM's epic storyline (Too many DMs try to emulate either J.R.R. Tolkein or Robert Jordan). In the campaign worlds that do have them, they tend to fill a non archtypical role (Gnome Druids, Gnome Sages, Gnome Bankers, or whatever).

One last thought. For newer players, or impatient players, a Warrior type is often the quickest character to create. This rules out casual selection of Gnomes and Halflings (both take a Str penalty). Theives are the secondary choice for a quick and easy character. Once you get past skill selection, no spells to keep track of. Players who take Theives will often take either Human (Extra Skill Points), or Halfling (Dex and Theif racial bonuses). No one will take a Gnome on impulse.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[ced1106]

I think that's a fair question and I don't really have a response to it. Probably because my players are comfortable with the "traditional" fantasy types in Lord of the Rings.

Good point. Dwarves, elves, and halflings appear in Lord of the Rings. Gnomes appear... in that stupid illustrated Gnomes book from the, what, 1980's?


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^

 

[Aldymnor]

Something like 50% of all my true screw-overs involve a gnome. They're just bad luck, and not limited to D&D.

 

[Black Omega]

I can kinda see where drnuncheon is coming from. I used to MUSH quite a bit on World of Darkness MUSHes. And I got -so- tired of people doing Malkavians as pleasantly goofy.

My group wasn't into DnD for over a decade before 3E came out, so we luckily missed the gnomish sterotypes. In three games so far only one gnome was played and he was very much the quiet, nature type.

 

[Klaus]

For those of you intending to change the gnome favored class to druid, remember to have nearly EVERY SINGLE GNOME carry either a sickle, a club or a sling, to reflect their spiritual oaths. Perhaps even give gnomes proficiency in the sickle and the sling regardless of class (like an elf has the sword, rapier and bow).

For those who like the mechanically-inclined gnomes but hate the tinker gnome, you can easily have gnomes be the inventors of: hand and repeating crossbows, alchemist's fire, tindertwig, antitoxin, tanglefoot bags, apparatus of kwalish.

Fiery Dragon's adventure "The Ghost Machine" (found in the To Stand On Hallowes Ground double-book) features a gnome's evil machinations.

And a while back I wrote a Prestige Class for gnomes intended to be the gnomish answer to the arcane archer and the dwarven defender. Check out the Gnome Combat Miner .

In a campaign I started writing back in 2e, gnomes were cousins of dwarves, and shared their kingdom. But where dwarves were interested in practical things, gnomes loved abstract things like philosophy. When they were forced to settle in human lands, they helped humans develop a codex of laws to protect the weak and the poor. In this campaign, elves had druid as a favored class, and gnomes had wizard as a favored class. But now I'm settled in the other way around (or perhaps elves as sorcerors).

 

[LostSoul]

Bah.

It's because gnomes are short, weak, and have big ugly noses.

Nobody wants to play a short ugly sissy. I can't imagine anyone having a power fantasy like that.

 

[Buttercup]

There are two reasons I dislike gnomes so much. First, I can't help but see those tacky garden statues in my head every time they're mentioned. Second, the trickster/tinker archetype annoys the heck out of me.

My games are 100% gnome-free zones.