D&D 5E Why do so many DMs use the wrong rules for invisibility?

[Beleriphon]

The difficulty of detecting a hidden creature is based on its Stealth check, which it hasn't rolled if it didn't take an action to hide. Modifiers may apply due to circumstances, sure, but the Stealth skill of a target is always the primary factor. That's the mechanical irregularity which would be introduced here.

I have a question. How many creatures that turn invisible aren't trying to hide somehow? By default maybe the invisible condition should just trigger a stealth check by default.

Some default invisible creatures (invisible stalkers for example) still need to make stealth checks to sneak up on a character. Just like they would have to make a stealth check to escape combat, the difference is to escape combat they don't need to become unseen by breaking line of sight.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I have a question. How many creatures that turn invisible aren't trying to hide somehow?

The ones who are in the middle of combat and can only do one thing at a time, so they just cast a spell and haven't had time to get around to hiding yet. They probably have future intent to hide, but they aren't actually trying to hide yet.

I'd be okay with a house rule that lets someone try to hide as soon as they went invisible, if the DM was insistent, but I would prefer to play in a world where escaping combat isn't that easy. The default rules basically make it impossible for a spellcaster to flee from the party, since they'd have to weather an entire round worth of attacks between going invisible and hiding, and that sounds great to me as a player.

 

[Samir]

If you're automatically aware of the locations of non-hidden creatures, even if they're invisible, what is the purpose of the following abilities?

FERAL SENSES

You are also aware of the location of any invisible creature within 30 feet of you, provided that the creature isn't hidden from you and you aren't blinded or deafened.

BLINDSENSE

Starting at 14th level, if you are able to hear, you are aware of the location of any hidden or invisible creature within 10 feet of you.

 

[Lanefan]

I play to have fun. For me rolling for half an hour of "misses" is not fun. I do not care if the characters are there for half an hour playing blind whack-a-mole.

Then maybe try something different:
- cast 'Light' to cancel the darkness
- or 'Dispel Magic' if you need a bigger cannon
- back off and drop some heavy area damage on the situation
- if melee is your only option, pull out the longest weapon you've got and sweep the area - not to hit for damage, but to find a target. Then grapple what you find.
- and if all else fails but you know the darkness is artificial, stop moving completely and just wait for the darkness to end

And i do not think that anyone that had the possibility to move out of Darkness would remain in there if this means that the ability to strike with advantage/give out disadvantage would come back.

Obviously, assuming there's a non-darknessed place to go and you can find it/stumble on to it.

"There needs to be" only in your opinion. It's fine, but there's no need for WOTC, or else there would be.

Or they simply made a bad call.

Then again, the only time I get frustrated when I can't hit an opponent im melee is when they can't miss me.

Lanefan

 

[Oofta]

It is, quite probably, futile, yes.

There are a lot of things not directly or unequivocally stated in the rules, and the DM is free to rule the way he sees fit in those (many) instances. Perversely, that includes picking one interpretation to consider 'RAW' and sticking to it even when it turns nonsensical.

I always try to avoid saying that my interpretation of the rules the the one true way*. By and large I don't believe it adds any credence to include the acronym "RAW" as part of my posting. My opinion and preference is just that, my opinion and preference.

So to sum up my opinions/preferences on this subject

• Invisibility should be more then just a long-running Blur spell that prevents you from attacking or casting spells.
• If you're going to quote rules, quote them. Don't take them out of context, don't change the wording. Don't insist that "can be" means "is always".
• I agree that in many cases you can detect the location of an invisible creature that is not hidden from you. There is simply nothing in the rules that state that you can always detect the location of an invisible creature unless they are hidden.
• If you state that you run as X and I say I run it as Y, that's fine. Just don't state that your opinion is the one true way because it's "RAW".
• I prefer 5E because it gets away from the style of [previous edition which shall not be named] that often played like a tactical board game.
• There is probably always going to be a big divide between people who prefer a game-ist explicit set of rules versus those who prefer 5E's more relaxed approach.

*I don't always succeed I'm sure.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Lanefan]

Page 105 of basic rules under Invisible.

The creature’s location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves.​

I don't interpret "can be detected" as "is always detected".

Ding! You've found the wording problem.

"Can [be]" is often interpreted to be certain, or automatic. The word they should have used is "May [be]" which implies uncertainty; "Might [be]" would be even better.

Come to think of it, I think the same thing applies in the long-rest argument.

Lanefan

 

[Lanefan]

The ones who are in the middle of combat and can only do one thing at a time, so they just cast a spell and haven't had time to get around to hiding yet. They probably have future intent to hide, but they aren't actually trying to hide yet.

I'd be okay with a house rule that lets someone try to hide as soon as they went invisible, if the DM was insistent, but I would prefer to play in a world where escaping combat isn't that easy. The default rules basically make it impossible for a spellcaster to flee from the party, since they'd have to weather an entire round worth of attacks between going invisible and hiding, and that sounds great to me as a player.

Until you're playing the spellcaster who is trying to flee...

Invisibility is used FAR more often by PCs than their enemies, IME.

Lan-"can you see me now?"-efan

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Until you're playing the spellcaster who is trying to flee...

What, and abandon the rest of the party?

PCs often use invisibility for scouting, or sometimes for the combat advantage. Escaping from a fight, while abandoning your allies to their doom, is more of a villain thing.

 

[SkidAce]

If you're automatically aware of the locations of non-hidden creatures, even if they're invisible, what is the purpose of the following abilities?

FERAL SENSES

You are also aware of the location of any invisible creature within 30 feet of you, provided that the creature isn't hidden from you and you aren't blinded or deafened.

BLINDSENSE

Starting at 14th level, if you are able to hear, you are aware of the location of any hidden or invisible creature within 10 feet of you.

My "guess"? It gives you the ability to detect them no matter how good their stealth roll was.