Why Do You Hate An RPG System?

[Arilyn]

D&D, like other RPGs is meta. How come the poor halflings in earlier editions could work and work on being a fighter and keep killing those monsters, but not get past 4th level?

How come arrows never hit vital organs causing massive bleed damage? How come my armour doesn't actually reduce hp loss? How come in 5e every character has the same proficiency bonus? How come I learn new things in chunks when my level watch dings?

These are all meta mechanics created purely for game mechanics.

 

[Anoth]

Like that fighter who has been going along being all fightery and killing things and suddenly he has experience in spellcasting and can magically bond with his weapon?

SO what skills and abilities has our fighter been using to develop these spell slots?

I much preferred the old way when starting age for a wizard was in mid 30s and it would take decades to become a first level wizard from the time u decided to start

 

[Anoth]

D&D, like other RPGs is meta. How come the poor halflings in earlier editions could work and work on being a fighter and keep killing those monsters, but not get past 4th level?

How come arrows never hit vital organs causing massive bleed damage? How come my armour doesn't actually reduce hp loss? How come in 5e every character has the same proficiency bonus? How come I learn new things in chunks when my level watch dings?

These are all meta mechanics created purely for game mechanics.

A.) armor does negate damage. If you have a +8 armor bonus then there are 8 numbers in the 20 sided die that if the enemy rolls those numbers then the attack roll does not get through. Real good attackers will do even better.

B.) arrows do cause vital strikes to the heart or head. That happens when they reduce you to zero hit points. If you have hit points they didn’t hit you in a vital area.

and the others well I’m not even going to try to put much thought in the 5E skill system.

 

[Arilyn]

A.) armor does negate damage. If you have a +8 armor bonus then there are 8 numbers in the 20 sided die that if the enemy rolls those numbers then the attack roll does not get through. Real good attackers will do even better.

B.) arrows do cause vital strikes to the heart or head. That happens when they reduce you to zero hit points. If you have hit points they didn’t hit you in a vital area.

and the others well I’m not even going to try to put much thought in the 5E skill system.

Armour is still abstracted, making it pretty meta. Players can't even agree on what hp are, as can be seen in all the heated debates on this site. This is not a complaint. The meta, abstract nature of hp are needed in a game like D&D, otherwise, the game would be pretty horrific, considering the amount of fighting characters do on a daily basis. I mean, nobody ever actually suffers from getting slashed and hacked until unconsciousness takes over. Getting hit by a fireball should be absolutely horrible and excruciating.

Games all have meta type mechanics that are used to catch a certain flavour or genre. They don't usually bother me.

 

[Tonguez]

As I said, any serious concept can be made to seem ridiculous, if that's your goal. If you were even slightly serious about actually understanding what's going on within the world, then you wouldn't have to ask that question.

No its legitimately why I dont like class and level system and think spellcasting should be a skill.
I cant think of any good rationale as to why someone gets a whole chunk of new powers because they were out killing stuff, Experience is entirely a meta-concept. If you can provide a logical explanation for it then I'd really love to hear it.

At least Aspects in Fate are declared parts of the narrative and my character develops and gains aspects as part of the ongoing narrative

 

[Anoth]

Armour is still abstracted, making it pretty meta. Players can't even agree on what hp are, as can be seen in all the heated debates on this site. This is not a complaint. The meta, abstract nature of hp are needed in a game like D&D, otherwise, the game would be pretty horrific, considering the amount of fighting characters do on a daily basis. I mean, nobody ever actually suffers from getting slashed and hacked until unconsciousness takes over. Getting hit by a fireball should be absolutely horrible and excruciating.

Games all have meta type mechanics that are used to catch a certain flavour or genre. They don't usually bother me.

the reason players can’t agree on what hit points are is because they won’t read the definition in the PHB for some reason. It is pretty clear.

for what you are saying you might as well be saying games are meta. All I can say to that is that if someone doesn’t like meta then they shouldn’t play games.

what is an example of a game that is Not meta

 

[Arilyn]

the reason players can’t agree on what hit points are is because they won’t read the definition in the PHB for some reason. It is pretty clear.

for what you are saying you might as well be saying games are meta. All I can say to that is that if someone doesn’t like meta then they shouldn’t play games.

what is an example of a game that is Not meta

Yes, games are meta. That's what I'm saying. Can't be escaped and not a problem.

 

[Ovinomancer]

As I said, any serious concept can be made to seem ridiculous, if that's your goal. If you were even slightly serious about actually understanding what's going on within the world, then you wouldn't have to ask that question.

If the rules create a self-evident system, and you can level up in a spell-casting class without prior training by those same rules, then this is part of the self-evident system -- killing monsters as a fighter can learn you magics.

What you do is called special pleading. It's where you except those things that cut against your argument and keep only the parts that you like. If you're going to argue that XP and levels are a coherent, non-meta system that is part of the fictional world, then you have to explain all the things those rules are capable of in that same system. Declaring some outcomes of the rules to be too silly to contemplate while saying others are obviously non-meta parts of the world is a deeply flawed argument. I get that you have your playstyle, and that's cool and all, go for it, advocate for it, even! But you really need to stop trying to argue that your preferences are actually foundational tenets of roleplaying. They're just, like, your opinion, man.

 

[Anoth]

If the rules create a self-evident system, and you can level up in a spell-casting class without prior training by those same rules, then this is part of the self-evident system -- killing monsters as a fighter can learn you magics.

What you do is called special pleading. It's where you except those things that cut against your argument and keep only the parts that you like. If you're going to argue that XP and levels are a coherent, non-meta system that is part of the fictional world, then you have to explain all the things those rules are capable of in that same system. Declaring some outcomes of the rules to be too silly to contemplate while saying others are obviously non-meta parts of the world is a deeply flawed argument. I get that you have your playstyle, and that's cool and all, go for it, advocate for it, even! But you really need to stop trying to argue that your preferences are actually foundational tenets of roleplaying. They're just, like, your opinion, man.

i think the game is assuming that you are doing things between adventures to justify learning spells. Maybe even things you are not declaring. Not that I like multiclassing, but that is how I would do it.

 

[dragoner]

Yes, games are meta. That's what I'm saying. Can't be escaped and not a problem.

Yes, I agree. Classes, leveling, hit points, all very meta; I still play games with them, just don't focus in on those parts that bug me. Games are like cookies, I love oatmeal, with raisins too, I know some that can't stand the raisins, same as I don't care much for lemon, I'll eat the lemon ones, except not buy them. Sort of like if someone is running a game, I'm way more apt to play something that isn't my favorite, rather than if running the game I want to run, it will be a system I prefer. All of the popular games, are good for the most part, because then if they weren't we wouldn't be having such a big discussion about them.