Why do you love/hate Drizzt?

[Darth Shoju]

Well, Deneir's a goodly deity, isn't he? He wouldn't want his chosen crippled for life if he can't help it - he already showed that he was willing to sacrifice his youth for the faith.

Well if he is such a good deity, then why test Cadderly in the first place? From what I recall, Cadderly's faith wasn't exactly in question after the first two books anyway. Why put him through that agony and torture for no reason?

I remember reading a similar story, about some Deity requiring one of his followers to sacrifice his own son on an altar. The guy had put the boy down and was ready to plunge the knife down when his God told him he passed the test, that sacrificing his son wouldn't be necessary - the God only wanted to know what the man would do for his faith. I remember that being regarded as a good story by some.

I also remember a story about some deity asking his own son to sacrifice his life for the betterment of humanity. But I think we are dancing around the "no religion" rule here anyway. Let's just say I think it would have been more compelling if Cadderly had been sent to an early grave in order to create the cathedral of Deneir. His reward for his faith would been a special place at Deneir's side in the afterlife. But I guess handwaving away any cost of raising a gigantic building out of the ground from bare rock is pretty entertaining too.

Isn't everyone always complaining that D&D combat is so unimaginative? I can remember several people pining for "swing from the chandelier" type of action, not the dumb standing around hitting each other with pointy bits of metal.

But if someone comes along and writes about what high rolls in tumble, balance, jump and so on could look like, people complain.

Some people just like to be negative

Imaginative does not have to mean nonsensical. I enjoy Salvatore's action sequences as much as the next guy, but they sometimes get unnecessarily complicated.

Well, this is D&D. It's supposed to be ridiculously easy to get patched up perfectly with some prayer spells. Some restoration, regeneration, cure x wounds, heal, and you're as good as new. Why shouldn't those well-paid celebrety D&D characters get the same treatment?

Well I wouldn't have had a problem if they had gone to Cadderly's magical "House of Deneir where nothing could possibly go wrong" and he had regenerated the missing parts of their anatomy and resurrected Wulfgar. But instead Bruenor and Regis seemed to gain the ability to spontaneously regenerate. Maybe they are distant relatives of Wolverine? Ooohh I know! Maybe Wolverine should fight Drizzt!!!! And then Darth Maul can show up with some ninja Sith and things can really get interesting!111!!!!!! And maybe that fight can be described in an obtuse and over-extended manner!!!

Alright, I'm done with the sarcasm. It is a poor substitute for wit anyway.

(And I actually really do like Wolvie, Drizzt and Darth Maul FTR. They just tend to be the fanboy's wet dream is all.)

 

[Jesus_marley]

I have read almost all of Bob's novels, and I must state that although I enjoy the stories, my problem is mostly with the way the protagonists are written. Drizzt mostly, and to a lesser extent his other story heroes, seem too perfect to me. I understand that they ARE hero characters, but they always manage to overcome not only the bad guy, but their own personal flaws. I want a flawed character. Perfection pisses me off.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Well if he is such a good deity, then why test Cadderly in the first place? From what I recall, Cadderly's faith wasn't exactly in question after the first two books anyway. Why put him through that agony and torture for no reason?

Dunno. Maybe to see how far he would go for his faith. I don't even know whether Deneir demanded the construction of that cathedral from Cadderly.

Let's just say I think it would have been more compelling if Cadderly had been sent to an early grave in order to create the cathedral of Deneir. His reward for his faith would been a special place at Deneir's side in the afterlife. But I guess handwaving away any cost of raising a gigantic building out of the ground from bare rock is pretty entertaining too.

It wasn't exactly handwaved away, though. He did have to walk around as an old man for a couple of years. I guess he has that special place secured anyway. Maybe Deneir found out he's a family guy, anyway, and didn't want Cadderly's kids to grow up without a father?

 

[Darth Shoju]

Dunno. Maybe to see how far he would go for his faith. I don't even know whether Deneir demanded the construction of that cathedral from Cadderly.



It wasn't exactly handwaved away, though. He did have to walk around as an old man for a couple of years. I guess he has that special place secured anyway. Maybe Deneir found out he's a family guy, anyway, and didn't want Cadderly's kids to grow up without a father?

I don't think Deneir did demand he build the cathedral. I think that is what made it seem all the more moving before the aging was reversed.

Meh. It's not like I'm saying this is bad writing or anything. That's the way RAS chose to go and good for him. I'm just saying I would have found it more compelling if the sacrifice had been more meaningful. YMMV and all that.

 

[Crust]

His novels aren't classics (yet), but they do satisfy a certain something I desire as a reader.

RAS' FR novels, to me, seem to exist outside the FR library itself, as if his books are taking place in an alternate past or dimension. His books are total pulp, like comic books with no pictures. Not that I think he's a poor writer. He really knows how to set up a scene, especially a fight scene (Road of the Patriarch and Starless Night are good examples of that). I don't think my adrenaline pumped harder while reading FR than when Drizzt, Catti-brie, Entreri, and Guen fled the Underdark in Starless Night.

He's often almost quoted the PHB and DMG (which I hate seeing but love finding), and the magic level in his books seems low (the Obould ritual with the bull and the cat is an obvious example - +4 to at least Str and Dex) when compared to the likes of Greenwood, but the combat is high. With the movies that are out today (Crouching Tiger and its offspring, Matrix, LotR, etc.), you'd think Drizzt would be a prime target for a film.

I agree that the introspective journal entries are a waste. It got really bad when Drizzt's journals started appearing in novels that don't even feature Drizzt.

The fight scenes are too damn meticulous. Yes, I understand Salvatore knows his stuff concerning dueling and such, but I often have a hard time envisioning Drizzt's scimitars turning over and over, forcing his opponent's sword out wide, only to twist in a cork-screw, reversing the angle of his blades in a cross-down cut... :\

Yes he defeated a dragon, a demon, drow weapon masters, bested a marilith in a one-on-one duel, etc., but he was almost killed by a ogre juiced up on potions (Sea of Swords), and he was also almost killed by an orc barbarian5/fighter4 who may or may not have an additional +4 to each ability score (Obould). Drizzt's combat history/progression is odd to say the least. Maybe he was just having a bad day (or rolling 1s). I was honestly upset that Drizzt didn't defeat Obould at the end of Hunter's Blades. It didn't make sense to me. But then again, who am I, really? Just a fan. It didn't make sense to me that Han Solo would say, "You're a wonderful human being" to Jabba the Hutt, but what do I know?

Whether you're looking at Drizzt's past in the novels alone, or you're considering the FRCS information, Obould should have been embarrassed by The Hunter, for crying out loud.

Hell, I still feel cheated for The Thousand Orcs. There's Drizzt on the cover, surrounded by orcs, dealing death (Drizzt's scimitars worked a deadly dance of death, twisting outward, his body turning around and under his opponent's spear, coming in with a diagonal cross-wise slash, shifting his left foot one half-inch forward and stabbing...), and what do I get? Not that. What a devious, underhanded, downright low thing to do. Didn't anyone say, at some point, "Um, uh, this picture on the front here... It doesn't happen in the novel. Anyone think that'll be a problem?"

It's like no one stopped Lucas and told him, "Um, sir, you do realize that Jabba the Hutt is a hutt, not a human being, and therefore what Han Solo says in this scene will make no sense whatsoever." That person would have most likely been fired, but it might have saved Star Wars. How do these things happen?

Anyway, I'm not giving up on Drizzt. I've invested too much time into him to abandon him now. It's also fun complaining about what happens in the novels, because there's always something, and I'm a fan.

In fact, I darn well better see a film in the next ten years. I think Drizzt should be a household name, like the Ninja Turtles or Harry Potter. We've got the miniature, the video game appearances, the graphic novels, Dragons of Autumn Twilight is coming out this year... It's coming.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

It's like no one stopped Lucas and told him, "Um, sir, you do realize that Jabba the Hutt is a hutt, not a human being, and therefore what Han Solo says in this scene will make no sense whatsoever." That person would have most likely been fired, but it might have saved Star Wars. How do these things happen?

Lucas would have stared at the guy and said "Han's being sarcastic, you moron."

 

[Crust]

Lucas would have stared at the guy and said "Han's being sarcastic, you moron."

In the case of the '97 remake, I don't buy that.

And if that was the reason, it's a poor example of sarcasm and a clear indication that it was originally a human being standing there and not a CGI hutt. Just an overall bad idea that should not be repeated by future generations.

Not that RAS has made this type of blunder in his FR work, but I'm watching...

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Yes he defeated a dragon, a demon, drow weapon masters, bested a marilith in a one-on-one duel, etc., but he was almost killed by a ogre juiced up on potions (Sea of Swords), and he was also almost killed by an orc barbarian5/fighter4 who may or may not have an additional +4 to each ability score (Obould). Drizzt's combat history/progression is odd to say the least. Maybe he was just having a bad day (or rolling 1s). I was honestly upset that Drizzt didn't defeat Obould at the end of Hunter's Blades. It didn't make sense to me. But then again, who am I, really? Just a fan. It didn't make sense to me that Han Solo would say, "You're a wonderful human being" to Jabba the Hutt, but what do I know?

He said he outfought Obould. Obould nearly killed him simply due to his uber-armor; even with the deific stat pumping he couldn't beat Drizzt.

Then again, I'm upset that Obould was stupid enough to listen to those drow. He's supposed to be smart, but obviously he wasn't.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

He said he outfought Obould. Obould nearly killed him simply due to his uber-armor; even with the deific stat pumping he couldn't beat Drizzt.

Plus, let's always remember that novel authors are, as a rule, not required to print out their characters' sheets and roll the battles they're about to write about, or even cleave to closely to the stats.

That having been said, I was a bit miffed that a mere orc could be a challenge to a drow swordmaster, but not because of any stats, but because, well, it's an orc. In my opinion, they shouldn't be allowed to do anything but being slaughtered by the score (Oh, and shore up the numbers again, of course). It's not Midnight, after all.

Then again, I'm upset that Obould was stupid enough to listen to those drow. He's supposed to be smart, but obviously he wasn't.

He's supposed to be smart for an orc, which means he can say words with three or more syllables and think without moving his lips (when he makes an effort), and might even be able to read (although not without his fingers).

Plus, everyone knows that drow are pretty smart and really good at the whole scheming business. It's all they do, after all. (Well, besides the backstabbing, taking of slaves, spreading of death and destruction, commiting of deprived sex acts and blood sacrifices to their respective deities. But stuff like that doesn't count )

 

[JVisgaitis]

He said he outfought Obould. Obould nearly killed him simply due to his uber-armor; even with the deific stat pumping he couldn't beat Drizzt.

Ya know, I just think you hit the nail on the head inadvertently. Seems like the books were a lot better before Drizzt was give stats and before Salvatore concerned himself with tying it back to the game. Maybe its just me, but the books should be the books and the game should be the game. Through it all though, I must admit there is something I like a lot about the character. Sure he hasn't evolved and been developed as much as I would like, but he's still a great character. If the personae of Drizzt brings people to D&D I'm all for it. Anything that brings people to the hobby is a good thing.