D&D 5E Why does 5E SUCK?

[I'm A Banana]

Heh. But yeah, I get your point. I alluded to this the other day in the thread about a dragon's speed. A duck in real life is twice as fast as a D&D dragon, and an eagle is 4x as fast. In fact, a dragon in flight is only as fast as a human sprinter. For context, The Lonely Mt is 30 miles or so away from Lake-Town. It would have taken Smaug about an hour and a half to get there if he were a D&D dragon.

Like the dragon's speed, the fear distance you mention I have a strong feeling is done because they are still viewing D&D combat as happening on a grid as the default. An influence from 4e, where nearly every combat encounter was grid based I'm guessing. Seeing as how you can't have a 1000ft grid with 5ft squares fit on most gaming tables, all these distances and rates were compressed.

I'm not a fan of sacrificing that level of verisimilitude for metagame reasons. YMMV of course.

Personally, I find this very amenable to a DM judgement call, so it doesn't bug me much. When most folks see a dragon, they run, no Fear Aura needed - it's just the sensible thing to do. And PC's, being exceptions, don't need to worry about it until they're up close. And with the speed - it moves at the Speed of Plot when not in a fight, and in a fight, when I'm using abstract distances, their speed is fast enough to basically be wherever they need to be on their turn.

 

[epithet]

Your note about dragon flight speeds in the other thread made me do some research. By tripling the MM dragon speed I'll get it to slightly under half as fast as a California condor. Most monsters don't bother me when stats are wimpy but dragons should have received more attention. OTOH, I now have done nasty surprises for the players who insist on studying the MM.

A move of 80 would be (using dash) a top speed of 17 miles per hour. The Condor has a top speed of 55 mph.

If you want to surprise your players, give winged flying creatures the ability to glide as their movement for a turn, allowing them to maintain their current dash speed in a straight line while still having their action to use for havoc and mayhem.

 

[Parmandur]

Technically speaking, Dragons shouldn't be able to fly. They can only fly because MAGIC, so comparing the speed of a 3-ton lizard to even a Condor is...problematic...if we are talking science.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Technically speaking, Dragons shouldn't be able to fly. They can only fly because MAGIC, so comparing the speed of a 3-ton lizard to even a Condor is...problematic...if we are talking science.

I think we're talking coolness more than science. A dragon slower than a duck is underwhelming.

 

[Dausuul]

Why does 5E suck? Because it leads to people posting threads with inflammatory titles that make other people rush to defend it.

Honestly, I can't think of anything about 5E that I hate. Minor gripes, sure, but the nice thing about 5E is that it's easy to customize, so if there's a small thing that's bugging me, I can just fix it. It's my favorite edition of D&D by a mile. My biggest complaint is that I want more content, which amounts to "I hate this system because I can't get enough of it."

 

[Fralex]

Heh. But yeah, I get your point. I alluded to this the other day in the thread about a dragon's speed. A duck in real life is twice as fast as a D&D dragon, and an eagle is 4x as fast. In fact, a dragon in flight is only as fast as a human sprinter. For context, The Lonely Mt is 30 miles or so away from Lake-Town. It would have taken Smaug about an hour and a half to get there if he were a D&D dragon.

I'm not a fan of sacrificing that level of verisimilitude for metagame reasons. YMMV of course.

I think that's just supposed to be a dragon's "in combat" speed. Like, the fastest a dragon can move without losing maneuverability or risking overexertion. If you're being chased by an adult red dragon, it can cover a maximum distance of 880 feet in six seconds (146 ft/s = 100 mph), eleven times its normal flying speed, with a 61% chance of becoming exhausted at the end of its turn. It can also cover 640 feet (107 ft/s = 72 mph) with only a 46% chance of exhaustion, and reach 240 feet (60 ft/s = 41 mph) easily with just a 10% chance of exhaustion.

An ancient red dragon, even when flying at maximum speed, has only a 40% chance of exhaustion. That's 960 feet in a round, or 160 ft/s (109 mph).

 

[bgbarcus]

I think we're talking coolness more than science. A dragon slower than a duck is underwhelming.

Exactly what I was thinking.

I also like the glide idea. I've always done something close to that by giving dragons a near silent glide until they were in breath range but I didn't think of tying it to the actual speed. It was always just a scary narrative tool.

Ideally an adult or ancient dragon will never be considered an easy or moderate encounter for my group, which usually fields 9+ characters between PC's and henchmen. I let young dragons die more easily. Only the most clever and dangerous reach adulthood.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I think we're talking coolness more than science. A dragon slower than a duck is underwhelming.

I don't even think it's about coolness. I think it's more about literature and history. Pretty much every flying dragon I can think from myth, legend, and fiction are faster than half the speed of a duck

Yeah, dragons aren't real. But we have A LOT of reference material to base them off of. 15mph flight speed....just doesn't do it, regardless if it's for balance or metagame reasons. I understand why it is like it is, I just don't agree with it is all.

 

[bgbarcus]

If you're being chased by an adult red dragon, it can cover a maximum distance of 880 feet in six seconds (146 ft/s = 100 mph),

I don't have any of my books available, where did that 880 feet/round come from?

 

[Fralex]

I don't have any of my books available, where did that 880 feet/round come from?

The chase rules in the DMG. When you focus everything on speed, things like your Constitution play a factor in how many times you can use the Dash action each turn and how easily you can get worn-out by pushing yourself.