Why does STR affect Attack Bonus?

[monboesen]

Afterall, the most fundamental part of boxing, I've heard, is good footwork.

Yep. And having "heavy hands" has more to do with weight and weight displacement than strength.

Those obese heavyweights can hit very hard if they have learned the technique (and that includes good footwork) to do so. Pure armstrength wont get you far. Try taking a look at Mike Tysons thighs if you ever see him boxing again. Thats where a lot of his diabolic hitting power stems from. Man he was scary 10-15 years ago

 

[Cam Banks]

Just felt like throwing an idea out, after reading this thread.

What if the Weapon Finesse feat also let you apply your Dex bonus to damage as well as attack bonus?

If that's too much, what about another feat (with Weapon Finesse as a prerequisite) that does that?

My thought is that switching out your combat style with finessable weapons entails moving away from power and force and towards direction and placement of the weapon, aiming for critical areas, etc. A rapier in the hands of a master fencer might end up in a much more deadly location through use of his Dexterity.

Power Attack is already useless with light weapons, so there's some precedent to the notion that Strength is less useful with these weapons in general. It would also make the quick, nimble little knife fighter with the high Dex and low Strength a lot more scary. Right now he might hit the other guy often but the results are feeble.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Just felt like throwing an idea out, after reading this thread.

What if the Weapon Finesse feat also let you apply your Dex bonus to damage as well as attack bonus?

I think it would make a perfectly reasonable feat tree. I would definitely not allow this as part of the Weapon Finesse feat as is.

 

[silentspace]

I agree with monboesen, and want to add that there are other factors in speed as well.

Speed is also reaction time - this is not muscular speed or trained reflexes, but how quickly you can react to a various stimuli.

Speed is also coordinated movement - the more efficient your movement, the less energy you need to expend, etc.

Speed is also deceptiveness - boxers and martial artists train to not just dodge, but dodge and counter at the same time - the dodging or ducking helps to disguise or distract your counterpunch. Its sort of a feint without actually having to feint. When you on the receiving end of a good counterpunch, it looks like the fastest punch in the world. Also in this category is the ability to deliver a blow without giving it away.

 

[silentspace]

I think one thing we all agree on is that coordination affects Attack Bonus. But what does coordination fall under? I think it falls under Dexterity. I can see how it could be interpreted to fall under Strength ('Strength used properly', etc), but if I had to choose between Strength and Dexterity, it just seems to me that coordination falls more under Dexterity than under Strength. I don't think it is BAB either, I think there is such a thing as natural coordination, which can be improved by training. But that's just my take on it. YMMV.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

If what you say was true, the sluggers would have the best averages. Unfortunately, they do not.

There is a reason for that, too.

The sluggers power attack every time they swing the bat. When you power attack, sometimes you miss.

"I swing big, with everything I've got. I hit big or I miss big. I like to live as big as I can. "
- Babe Ruth

"If I'd just tried for them dinky singles I could've batted around .600."
-Babe Ruth

 

[silentspace]

Just because the greatest player of all time could do that (or at least say that), doesn't mean every slugger can.

 

[Storyteller01]

There is a reason for that, too.

The sluggers power attack every time they swing the bat. When you power attack, sometimes you miss.

Sometimes!?

Note that pro ball players are among the best of the best (high dex, str, and BaB). When the average joe swings for the fences, does he usually hit or miss?

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I didn't realize we were talking about the average Joe. Adventurers are not the average Joe.

 

[Storyteller01]

I didn't realize we were talking about the average Joe. Adventurers are not the average Joe.

Nor are they baseball players. Also (unless you go for the Illiad and other stories like it) said adventurers tend to come from those average joes (theives to kings, peasants to generals, and all that)