Amal Shukup
First Post
Fascinating discussion going on here...
I'm going to weigh in slightly (apparently at length - yeesh!) on the Swordfighting/Strength connection. It's been talked around, but there's a wrinkle I haven't seen directly touched upon (I might have missed it though - I saw conversation veer in its general direction a few times...)
By way of background, before I busted my basal ganglia and stopped active practice, I'd been involved in martial arts for about 15 years. Besides the 'usual' unarmed stuff (Kung Fu, Aikido, Karate, Judo and so forth), I was totally in 'love' with swords: studied Fencing (foil and sabre), Chinese long and broad swords (via kung fu), Iaido, enough Kendo to know I really didn't like it much, plus a touch of European stuff - which I was really looking forward to continuing. Alas..
Anyway, general position: I believe Skill (as represented by quality of technique, 'muscle memory', ability to percieve openings, preparing without anticipating etc) is the primary factor in combat (this is distinct from DEX). However Strength is HUGELY important to the process of delivering a telling hit with a sword. ALL styles. HOWEVER (and this is what I want to get at), NOT neccesarily in a linear fashion - by simply 'hitting the guy harder' a la Babe Ruth et al. In my experience with swords, it's not in the swing, it's in the Wrist...
Some examples:
Foil/Sabre: Obviously the sword style that lends itself most to a DEX based approach. Yes, delivering the point to the target is intuitively a function of speed and accuracy (Skill and Dex). However, controlling the point precisely, establishing (via beats etc) and keeping the sword 'on-line' in the face of opposition, is largely a function of strength (the moreso, because this strength is often delivered using only three fingers - I sneer at the wrist strap crowd). This is even more pronounced in Schlager (a more historical Rapier style) where the blade is heavier and much more difficult to disengage.
Iaido: Strength applied poorly - tightness/rigidity of grip, tension across the shoulders etc. ruins technique something fierce. Just muscling the sword through space (as opposed to properly 'cutting' with the edge) is bad technique. Relaxation is (as noted) key - BUT. The luxury of being ABLE to relax while precisely moving a heavy sword through space is absolutely dependant on being fairly strong. This becomes VASTLY more important when we start moving said sword through OCCUPIED space...
To see this, spend some time doing tameshigiri (cutting moistened straw bundles mounted on a stake) and study the line of the cut: If the grip is too 'loose' (or too rigid), or the wrists 'wobbly', you can see 'wiggles' in the material where the sword's motion through the material was deflected - by straw! In actual combat, a blade that moves off line in this fashion doesn't just 'wiggle' or shear - it's deflected by armor, or lodged in bone, or bent/shattered by the blocking sword. ALL bad news. Strength is a key part of executing a cut properly - Not by 'muscling the sword THROUGH (In tameshigiri, this is just as likely to knock the whole bundle across the room as cut it) but in terms of gripping the tsuka properly: 'floating' index and middle fingers while firm with the ring and pinky fingers, and 'torqueing' the Tsuka firmly towards the thumbs with the wrists. This is difficult to maintain, and the harder you're swinging and cutting, the more torque you need to maintain control of the edge.
This is not brute strength, but very focussed, narrowly applied strength - but absolutely critical. One handed sword techniques are even more dependnt on wrist strength (you no longer have the dynamic tension afforded by torsion to help stabilize the edge - it's just muscle)
Kendo: Well, IME and IMNSHO a large number of Kendo Practitioners (and, for that matter most Aikido sword practitioners) who don't ALSO study Iaido (or have exceptional instruction) just don't 'cut' that well. That ubiquitous snapping, rotational 'flick' cut (as opposed to a proper 'sweep the ceiling' drawing cut) might sting a bit, and score points in a match, but it won't actually CUT anything (oh, if delivered strongly enough with a live blade, it could still kill a body, but would likely lodge inconveniently in skull or rib cage...) ANYWAY, my prejudices aside, bashing through the opponent's blocking efforts, disentangling one's own weapon, and beating the opponent's shinai out of line long enough to deliver even a crappy cut ALL require a fair amount of strength - mostly in the wrists.
In General: Sword Fighting isn't just about executing a technique perfectly (although that's the appeal of Iaido - it sort of IS), it's executing the technique perfectly despite the active opposition of another fighter. He's hitting your sword, deflecting your cuts, pushing your point/edge off line... Generally making a nuisance of himself. The more strength you can bring to bear (skillfull strength, not brute) the easier a time you'll have overcoming these efforts and landing a telling blow, punching through what armor may or may not be there, and holding the weapon's edge or point on line as it transects flesh and bone (Basically, overcoming his AC).
Never mind the strength required to quickly recover into a guard position after a missed blow, overcoming the inertia of the weapon (or your own body) as it's knocked about, and to keep lifting and swinging the damn thing...
Here's an idea... The experienced fighters here will know this feeling, but the rest of you should give it a go: Grab a metal bar or reasonable, sword-like facsimile and chop the hell out of something heavy that you don't need very badly. Keep you knees bent and use your whole body to deliver these blows. For extra joy, pick up a 5 pound weight in your off hand and hold it around nose height as if it were a shield - extending that arm to meet imagined incoming blows. Now, Dance around - shadow box a bit. Extend, 'block', step through and chop - dance back, recovering that sword and pulling that shield in before your arms get chopped off. Rinse, Repeat. Do this FULL OUT for 60 seconds (10 rounds).
Oh yeah, your muscles are likely to feel that.
A'Mal.
I'm going to weigh in slightly (apparently at length - yeesh!) on the Swordfighting/Strength connection. It's been talked around, but there's a wrinkle I haven't seen directly touched upon (I might have missed it though - I saw conversation veer in its general direction a few times...)
By way of background, before I busted my basal ganglia and stopped active practice, I'd been involved in martial arts for about 15 years. Besides the 'usual' unarmed stuff (Kung Fu, Aikido, Karate, Judo and so forth), I was totally in 'love' with swords: studied Fencing (foil and sabre), Chinese long and broad swords (via kung fu), Iaido, enough Kendo to know I really didn't like it much, plus a touch of European stuff - which I was really looking forward to continuing. Alas..
Anyway, general position: I believe Skill (as represented by quality of technique, 'muscle memory', ability to percieve openings, preparing without anticipating etc) is the primary factor in combat (this is distinct from DEX). However Strength is HUGELY important to the process of delivering a telling hit with a sword. ALL styles. HOWEVER (and this is what I want to get at), NOT neccesarily in a linear fashion - by simply 'hitting the guy harder' a la Babe Ruth et al. In my experience with swords, it's not in the swing, it's in the Wrist...
Some examples:
Foil/Sabre: Obviously the sword style that lends itself most to a DEX based approach. Yes, delivering the point to the target is intuitively a function of speed and accuracy (Skill and Dex). However, controlling the point precisely, establishing (via beats etc) and keeping the sword 'on-line' in the face of opposition, is largely a function of strength (the moreso, because this strength is often delivered using only three fingers - I sneer at the wrist strap crowd). This is even more pronounced in Schlager (a more historical Rapier style) where the blade is heavier and much more difficult to disengage.
Iaido: Strength applied poorly - tightness/rigidity of grip, tension across the shoulders etc. ruins technique something fierce. Just muscling the sword through space (as opposed to properly 'cutting' with the edge) is bad technique. Relaxation is (as noted) key - BUT. The luxury of being ABLE to relax while precisely moving a heavy sword through space is absolutely dependant on being fairly strong. This becomes VASTLY more important when we start moving said sword through OCCUPIED space...
To see this, spend some time doing tameshigiri (cutting moistened straw bundles mounted on a stake) and study the line of the cut: If the grip is too 'loose' (or too rigid), or the wrists 'wobbly', you can see 'wiggles' in the material where the sword's motion through the material was deflected - by straw! In actual combat, a blade that moves off line in this fashion doesn't just 'wiggle' or shear - it's deflected by armor, or lodged in bone, or bent/shattered by the blocking sword. ALL bad news. Strength is a key part of executing a cut properly - Not by 'muscling the sword THROUGH (In tameshigiri, this is just as likely to knock the whole bundle across the room as cut it) but in terms of gripping the tsuka properly: 'floating' index and middle fingers while firm with the ring and pinky fingers, and 'torqueing' the Tsuka firmly towards the thumbs with the wrists. This is difficult to maintain, and the harder you're swinging and cutting, the more torque you need to maintain control of the edge.
This is not brute strength, but very focussed, narrowly applied strength - but absolutely critical. One handed sword techniques are even more dependnt on wrist strength (you no longer have the dynamic tension afforded by torsion to help stabilize the edge - it's just muscle)
Kendo: Well, IME and IMNSHO a large number of Kendo Practitioners (and, for that matter most Aikido sword practitioners) who don't ALSO study Iaido (or have exceptional instruction) just don't 'cut' that well. That ubiquitous snapping, rotational 'flick' cut (as opposed to a proper 'sweep the ceiling' drawing cut) might sting a bit, and score points in a match, but it won't actually CUT anything (oh, if delivered strongly enough with a live blade, it could still kill a body, but would likely lodge inconveniently in skull or rib cage...) ANYWAY, my prejudices aside, bashing through the opponent's blocking efforts, disentangling one's own weapon, and beating the opponent's shinai out of line long enough to deliver even a crappy cut ALL require a fair amount of strength - mostly in the wrists.
In General: Sword Fighting isn't just about executing a technique perfectly (although that's the appeal of Iaido - it sort of IS), it's executing the technique perfectly despite the active opposition of another fighter. He's hitting your sword, deflecting your cuts, pushing your point/edge off line... Generally making a nuisance of himself. The more strength you can bring to bear (skillfull strength, not brute) the easier a time you'll have overcoming these efforts and landing a telling blow, punching through what armor may or may not be there, and holding the weapon's edge or point on line as it transects flesh and bone (Basically, overcoming his AC).
Never mind the strength required to quickly recover into a guard position after a missed blow, overcoming the inertia of the weapon (or your own body) as it's knocked about, and to keep lifting and swinging the damn thing...
Here's an idea... The experienced fighters here will know this feeling, but the rest of you should give it a go: Grab a metal bar or reasonable, sword-like facsimile and chop the hell out of something heavy that you don't need very badly. Keep you knees bent and use your whole body to deliver these blows. For extra joy, pick up a 5 pound weight in your off hand and hold it around nose height as if it were a shield - extending that arm to meet imagined incoming blows. Now, Dance around - shadow box a bit. Extend, 'block', step through and chop - dance back, recovering that sword and pulling that shield in before your arms get chopped off. Rinse, Repeat. Do this FULL OUT for 60 seconds (10 rounds).
Oh yeah, your muscles are likely to feel that.
A'Mal.
).
