Why does the Warmace (CW) have a -1 penalty to AC?

[Altamont Ravenard]

Is it written somewhere in the Warmace description that you need at least 13 STR to wield that mother (à la Bastard Sword)?

A dwarven waraxe weighs 8 lbs, and you need 13 STR to wield it one hand.

AR

 

[sfedi]

It seems right for me.

I'll give you an example:

In my game I introduced the following weapon:

Maul
Martial Weapon
Damage:1d12 - 20/x2 - Bludgeoning

So far, it seems quite balanced with the Great Axe and the Great Sword.
The Great Axe is Slashing, but Bludg is better, so it pays off the reduced Crit.

Now...
add to this the ability to be wielded in one hand, at the cost of one Feat.
This will make a hell of a deal.
Because instead of using a Bastard Sword, wich adds one point of damage on average, i'll add TWO points of damage with this Warmace.
Thus, a -1 penalty (to to hit, or AC) seems quite reasonable and balanced.

I left the issue that the weapon has a worse threat-crit than the Bastard Sword, because the Bludgeoning type of damage kind of compensates it... somewhat.

A better threat range/multiplier isn't as good as a +1 on average damage.

 

[xazil]

xazil,
could you explain what you mean? Thanks.

The Monkeygrip feat, also from the CW, allows you to use a weapon one size larger for -2 penalty to hit.

A powerattack of -2 does +2 damage or +4 damage for twohanded weapons.

It often ends up about the same damge when comparing these two, sometimes a little better sometimes a little worse. Note this is just comparing damage in these cases not taking to account power attacks flexibility and different ACs etc.

The break point tends to be with one handed weapons that do a large amount of damage already. The warmace the most obvious example. Monkeygrip is really a sword and boarders feat, perhaps to give them an edge against twohanders + animated shields.

Monkeygripped large spiked chain is 2d6 = 7 average damage.
Power attacking 2 with a spiked chain is 2d4+4 = 9 average damage.

Monkeygripped large greatsword is 3d6 = 10.5 average damage.
Power attacking 2 with a greatsword is 2d6+4 = 11 average damage.

Monkeygripped large rapier is 1d8 = 4.5 average damage.
Power attacking 2 with a rapier is 1d6+2 = 5.5 average damage.

Monkeygripped large longsword is 2d6 = 7 average damage.
Power attacking 2 with a longsword is 1d8+2 = 6.5 average damage.

Monkeygripped large bastard sword is 2d8 = 9 average damage.
Power attacking 2 with a bastard sword is 1d10+2 = 7.5 average damage.

Monkeygripped large warmace is 3d6 = 10.5 average damage.
Power attacking 2 with a warmace is 1d12+2 = 8.5 average damage.

As a note this gives you an idea how powerful the "powerful build" race feature of goliaths and half-giants actually is.

 

[kiznit]

I think it has less to do with damage and types of damage than it has to do with the damage/shield trade-off.

The most damage your character can do one-handedly without a feat is 1d8, but you can get a +2 bonus to armor using a large shield.

With an exotic weapon proficiency, you can use a dwarven waraxe or a bastard sword for 1d10 damage and still get a +2 ac with a shield.

Using the Warmace one-handed with a feat lets you do even more damage than that, hence, the -1 ac penalty.

Makes sense to me, I guess.

 

[Scharlata]

If I recall correctly, there is another EW in the CW that weighs 25#, and does not have the same difficulty to wield.

Check out the other large mass weapons in CW, I think it was a hammer.

Maybe, you are thinking of the Maul from CW (20#), EW, 1d10 x3? Needs to be feated to wield properly one-handed. Two-handed = martial.

Kind regards

 

[Scharlata]

Is it written somewhere in the Warmace description that you need at least 13 STR to wield that mother (à la Bastard Sword)?

A dwarven waraxe weighs 8 lbs, and you need 13 STR to wield it one hand.

Nope! No STR 13 needed.

Kind regards

 

[Li Shenron]

When I read the Warmace the first weapon which came to my mind to compare it with was the Greatclub (1d10 damage, crit x2, two-handed martial), so it made sense to me that there was as additional cost for +1 avg damage, +2 max damage.

Admittedly, the Greatclub is straight worse than the Heavy Flail (also bludgeoning), Greataxe, Halberd and Greatsword, all of which has something better, so the comparison is not very useful.

In any case, the AC penalty doesn't bother me at all, and I would gladly keep it.

 

[Prime]

Yeah. Do keep in mind that bludgeoning weapons are supposed to do slightly less damage than slashing ones, since their damage type IS better.

 

[Merlion]

how is blunt damage better, besides working real well on skeletons?

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

I think there are less creatures that are resistant to bludgeoning damage than creatures that are resistant to slashing / piercing damage (but I don't have actual figures).

AR