Why don't more people play high level campaigns? 13th+

[Remathilis]

Usually, outside forces rip my D&D games apart around 12th, but I'm now getting the chance to play some HL D&D as a player.

Everyone has touched on the mechanical aspects of the issue (save or die, teleport, 4 attack/round) but I want to touch on how the villians scale. You build a setting around the concept of orcs, skeletons, and drow living and threatening a world. However, eventually they stop being a threat and giants, liches, and dragons take over. Where were they when you were 1st level? Why didn't the Devil-King try to take over the world BEFORE you all turned 15th level?

Its the one thing I've always had a hard time with: where were these uber baddies before the game, so to speak?

 

[EricNoah]

13+ is a fun range to play as a player if you have a DM who's good at it. It is not personally a fun range for me to prepare for or run as a DM. I just don't have good adventure ideas for that range. I do not, however, have much of a problem statting up NPCs of that level due to the fact that I have eTools. As weird and flaky as it is, it's super helpful for this kind of task.

 

[Gundark]

13+ is a fun range to play as a player if you have a DM who's good at it. It is not personally a fun range for me to prepare for or run as a DM. I just don't have good adventure ideas for that range. I do not, however, have much of a problem statting up NPCs of that level due to the fact that I have eTools. As weird and flaky as it is, it's super helpful for this kind of task.

Agreed I use etools as well, with add-ons. It helps at this level, however there is still lots of looking up as I have lots fo the add-ons from other books.

I also suffer from high level "what kinds of adventures to do at this level?". For example murder plots are hard to do

 

[Voadam]

Agreed I use etools as well, with add-ons. It helps at this level, however there is still lots of looking up as I have lots fo the add-ons from other books.

I also suffer from high level "what kinds of adventures to do at this level?". For example murder plots are hard to do

Demon God's Fane. For 14th level characters I believe. Murder happens. PCs are expected to use magic and find out who did it. This leads on to finding murderer and fact that he is infected with evil from X leading heroes to investigate X.

Good use of a murder plot in a high level game. I believe Monte said in his playtest the PCs actually raised the murder victim and asked him "Who did it?"

 

[Shade]

Its the one thing I've always had a hard time with: where were these uber baddies before the game, so to speak?

Numerous options exist to explain this.

They may have always been there, and the PCs just never had the chance to go toe-to-toe with them. Luke didn't encounter the Emperor early on because the Emperor has lackeys to deal with those who are beneath him.

They may have been slumbering/imrpisoned/etc. Many fantasy books, movies, and TV shows follow this approach.

They may not be on the Material Plane, and may not be able to enter it. Until the PCs have the ability to leave the Material Plane, they'll never encounter them.

 

[EricNoah]

Demon God's Fane. For 14th level characters I believe. Murder happens. PCs are expected to use magic and find out who did it. This leads on to finding murderer and fact that he is infected with evil from X leading heroes to investigate X.

Good use of a murder plot in a high level game. I believe Monte said in his playtest the PCs actually raised the murder victim and asked him "Who did it?"

At this point though you're not writing adventures for humans -- you're writing adventures for gods, or superheroes. I'm no good at superhero plots either.

 

[robberbaron]

Its the one thing I've always had a hard time with: where were these uber baddies before the game, so to speak?

The PCs were so green that they couldn't see the BBEG's reach extending across the world. By the time they are powerful themselves, they are also a lot better at spotting stuff like this. At least, that is what I'll tell my players when they ask.


One other thing I find is that the higher level the PCs the more urgent the players' need to powergame. 1st to 5th - play everything as written; 6th to 9th - started having 'ideas' they think I can't fail to rubber stamp; 10th and up - every week someone wants me to allow something from some other book. As if I don't have enough reading to do.

 

[DragonLancer]

Under 1st and 2nd edition, my campaigns ended about 12th level for the reasons mainly stated in this thread. magic defeating the point of scenarios mainly though.

Under 3.5 I don't feel so bad about it anymore. Sure, the game complexity has gone up but I don't find it so difficult to run a satsfactory high level campaign.

 

[Voadam]

At this point though you're not writing adventures for humans -- you're writing adventures for gods, or superheroes. I'm no good at superhero plots either.

This same plot can be done at 3rd level. Speak with dead is a 2nd level spell. And it is what my 14th level party used to find the killer.

My 16th level EK does a lot of magical investigation. Most of it is using 1st level spells like charm person and creature and object loresite (from Complete Book of Eldritch Might) and could be done at low levels.

Combat challenges are easy to scale. Plots can mostly be used at any level IME.

 

[helium3]

I hear this a lot of the boards but no one ever seems to want to explain what that actually means.

Yeah. It's garbage. I'm in a high level group (18th level) and we've been doing just fine. Combat certainly does take a lot longer, but that's almost always because the Dungeon Magazine published encounters favor quantity over quality.