Why don't you buy non-WoTC stuff?

[Furn_Darkside]

Re: Why don't you but non-WoTC stuff?

I was looking at the campaign poll thread and saw that GH was beating SL and thought it was not because it is a better setting but because it is official and the creator of the poll forgot some pretty big alternate settings:
Kalamar
The Hunt: Rise of Evil

Well, as you have mentioned- the poll was flawed, so I would not read too much into it. I don't care for any of the options, but would have voted for GH since it is the least irritating of all the choices.

The people on these message boards are more likely to buy 3rd party books- why the more casual gamer might not is a nother matter.

why don't people buy non-WoTC stuff, retailers have told me that a lot of the non-WoTC stuff has less errata and seems like it goes in areas that people are asking for, heck we have WoTC people playing and using our stuff SO....why not you?

I know you meant a generic you, but I own much more 3rd party stuff then I own wotc. Heck, I think I own more AEG or Mongoose then I own WOTC.

Why don't other people? *shrug* There is probably a list of reasons- brand recognition(WOTC's name carries enough weight), confusion (they don't see D&D on the cover- and don't bother to read it can be used with D&D), or perhaps they are just cautious. They think they know what to expect from WOTC- and don't want to risk a limited gaming budget on trying another company out.

As for your stuff personally- I don't know. None of it has rung any bells for me. I really like desert/arabic campeigns, but the cover of "Dry Lands" turns me off. I will wait for a review, though.

FD

 

[Nightfall]

Well I didn't write the spells Thal but I'm glad you're having fun with Relics and Rituals. Btw, look for Relics and Rituals 2 come the 2nd of September. You might find your player/roommate casting "Bull's Grace" (Think Ray of Enfeeblement for Dex! , a lot.

 

[Aeolius]

Yes, I run a GH campaign because of my fondness for the setting. Yes, I am aware of the plethora of d20 products out there and have quite a few of them. Mix the two together with my homebrew additions and you have “my” GH – “Beneath the Pinnacles of Azor’alq”.

As my campaign is set underwater, I tend to gravitate towards d20 supplements dealing with that subject. “Seas of Blood”, Seafarer’s Handbook”, “Broadsides!”, and “Depths of Despair” are on my desk, alongside the Discovery Channel “Blue Planet” DVDs, and aquarium books. As there are neither “official” 3e D&D books dealing with aquatic campaigns nor detailed GH information regarding the depths of the seas, I get to do as I wish. Just the way I like it.

Rumor has it that Mystic Eye has an undersea supplement up their sleeve, as well (was that courtesy of Thunderhead Games? I forgot). I’ll be curious to see how it compliments my own assortment of skills, feats, PrCs, monsters, magics, and other Aeo originals in my ever-growing “Aquan Adventures” supplement.

Still, how does one market an undersea setting as a viable alternative to the standard dungeon crawl? This one has been puzzling me for years. While I find a player here and there, the majority seem unwilling to try a campaign where standard PC and monster races are seldom used or encountered. So, I advertise my game on aquarium websites and the like, hoping for a (pardon the pun) bite. “Wishy wishy, fishy fishy, come and grab my hook!”

 

[Psion]

Think Ray of Enfeeblement for Dex!

Oh, you mean Ray of Palsy in Secret College of Necromancy?

 

[Nightfall]

Well yeah. But I think I like the one in R&R2 better. I mean it's a funny name!

 

[Yarkul]

One of the reasons for my lack of d20 purchases:

Art, art and art: Really, if the cover is by some half-ass artist it immediately turns me off. Don't judge the book by its cover it is said but if there are 100 d20 products on the shelf, which one is going to draw my attention? The one with a good looking cover and good layout/design or the one that looks like one of my buddies drew the painting and I made the layout (i.e. crappy)? I don't spend a lot of time browsing each book in the store so of course the ones that are well-produced in art and layout are going to draw my interest. And frankly the WotC stuff out there is waaay ahead of most of the competition in this area. The same goes for the actual insides of the books.

Lately I've seen a drastic improvement in this area from most d20 companies but many of the earlier releases were really really bad.

 

[Psion]

One of the reasons for my lack of d20 purchases:

Art, art and art: Really, if the cover is by some half-ass artist it immediately turns me off.

You can't be serious.

WotC has some good artists like Reynolds, but he is seriously under-utilized. In the meantime, we have to slog though crap by Roach and Cramer in most softback books. Not to mention, the "sample covers" of most of the softback books have looked better than the end product.

Now compare that to brilliant interior artists like Andy Brase (FFG) and Danillo Moretti (Mongoose), and nice layouts by companies like FFG and Green Ronin.

Sorry, WotC does not have the market on layout and presentation cornered anymore.

 

[Ashy]

Hal,

I think that the root of this problem (and I do feel that it is a problem, and will continue to be so for the major D20 players in the future) lies in these three areas:

1. WotC has the bulk of the market share in any market you look at - there is little argument to this fact and there is little that can be done about it - other than perserverence. This fact dictates that the out of every 10 sales of RPG material, the majority of them will be going to WotC.

2. Gamers are an unusual and finicky lot; sure we all know this, but how does this affect sales, you ask? Many ways - gamers often tend to pick a line and stick with it (as I did with Planescape), buying everything that comes out for that line and not much else. Occasionally, you will have the instance where a gamer does cross these lines, but that I think is the exception rather than the rule. Also, gamers typically have limited funds for gaming material, so they buy what they can and hope that one day they can come back for what they missed out on. Finally, despite what we all might believe here, I feel that the majority of gamers are NOT on the net, and thus D20 companies that focus a great deal of their marketing effort on the web (which is a great idea, don't get me wrong) simply never reach those gamers. I bet every one of us on the boards could think of at least one gamer that we know personally that has never been to EN World or even (GASP!) has never heard of D20.

3. I feel that shopping over the net, especially with a D20 publisher, or via a site that a first time user (or gamer) knows littl about, its a detriment to D20 sales. I really feel that if all of the D20 publishers could bind together and contribute towards a common D20 Storefront that could really get some word of mouth and some "real world" marketing, then you'd see an increase in sales. However, I really do not know how feasible that would be but....

There's my $0.02....

 

[Lord Ben]

The first adventure I bought was non-WotC and it wasn't very good. Poor quality when the writer is also the editor, playtester, and Quality Control Analyst. They tend to be biased when it's their own product.

I buy Kalamar, but sometimes their idea of a good adventure isn't the same as mine. They need me as a playtester to tweek the adventures and make them perfect. The combat isn't up to snuff.

I'm more then willing to give it a shot though if another DM has an adventure and I play in it. I played in NeMoren's vault and it was really good so I bought that one. But I'm not going to fork over $10 for something I never heard of.

 

[Gothmog]

Ok, I am going to offer a slightly differnt opinion on this issue.

I often buy non-WoTC stuff in preference of the WoTC stuff. Why? For starters, the non-WoTC guys often come up with MUCH more interesting ideas for modules, sourcebooks, spells, classes, etc. I get the feeling a lot more thought goes into their product than the WoTC stuff, although I am sure Wizards does more playtesting of their material. Sure, the stats might be a little off sometimes in the non-Wizards stuff, but is it really that big of a deal? Not to me- I can check and tweak the stats if I need to, but the important thing is getting cool ideas, and for that, WoTC can't compete IMO.

Second, WoTC stuff often seems to fall into a rut. By that I mean that they tend to focus too much on one aspect of their splatbooks, such as new prestiege classes, feats, or spells, while completely neglecting more interesting topics, such as familiars, animal companions, fighting styles, criminal/underworld organizations, etc. New rules are nice, but after a while I get sick of them. WoTC rules stuff, while touted as balanced, isn't really to my taste a lot of the time. I know its just my opinion, but I prefer a lower magic, grittier world, and the WoTC rules additions and options often aim for ultra-high magic.

IMO, the best d20 companies out there now are Green Ronin, Mongoose, Kenzer, S&S, FFG, and MEG. All of these companies come up with interesting and original ideas. Sometimes the rules are bent a little in their stuff, but in the end we are here to game and have fun, not to worry about playing "official" D&D.