Why don't you buy non-WoTC stuff?
- Thread starter MEG Hal
- Start date
Re: Why don't you but non-WoTC stuff?
I couldn't say. If any company has the majority of my business, it's Steve Jackson Games. I only own three Hasbro roleplaying products, myself. Beyond the PHB, DMG, and MM, I've got no real interest in the other Hasbro D&D products.
THG Hal said:
I couldn't say. If any company has the majority of my business, it's Steve Jackson Games. I only own three Hasbro roleplaying products, myself. Beyond the PHB, DMG, and MM, I've got no real interest in the other Hasbro D&D products.
I buy very few RPG books at all. Off the top of my head, for 3rd edition stuff, I know I have the PHB, DMG, MM, Hero Builder's Guidebook, FR Campaign Setting, Touched By The Gods, Sovereign Stone Campaign Setting, and the two Creature Collection books. Three adventures as well, one from WOTC and two d20's (though I haven't ran any of them).
The reason I buy so few books is because I don't need any more variant magic systems, rules, or monsters. I have all I need in those categories. You know what I really need? Ideas.
That's why I bought Touched By The Gods (well, that and it was on the bargain rack). I wanted some fresh ideas. That's also why the majority of my purchases are outside the RPG realm - freshness. For example, the last three books I bought were a historical look at the medieval underworld (including cults, prostitution, gambling, deviant lifestyles, organized crime, etc), a book on mammals (with discussion about bone structure, shapes of noses, etc), and a book discussing day-to-day life in the great civilizations of ancient times (including everything from family structure to creation myths to the gods they worshipped, and how they worshipped them). I got all of these off the bargain rack at the local Barnes and Nobles, and they ended up costing me about $20 total.
I guess I could have taken that $20 and put it toward another set of rules on how to cast spells (only this magic system uses mana points instead of spell memorization), or 100 more variant zombies/dragons/jellies, but instead I put it toward 3 books that can generate a plethora of ideas that can effect my campaign world in a nearly infinite number of ways.
The reason I buy so few books is because I don't need any more variant magic systems, rules, or monsters. I have all I need in those categories. You know what I really need? Ideas.
That's why I bought Touched By The Gods (well, that and it was on the bargain rack). I wanted some fresh ideas. That's also why the majority of my purchases are outside the RPG realm - freshness. For example, the last three books I bought were a historical look at the medieval underworld (including cults, prostitution, gambling, deviant lifestyles, organized crime, etc), a book on mammals (with discussion about bone structure, shapes of noses, etc), and a book discussing day-to-day life in the great civilizations of ancient times (including everything from family structure to creation myths to the gods they worshipped, and how they worshipped them). I got all of these off the bargain rack at the local Barnes and Nobles, and they ended up costing me about $20 total.
I guess I could have taken that $20 and put it toward another set of rules on how to cast spells (only this magic system uses mana points instead of spell memorization), or 100 more variant zombies/dragons/jellies, but instead I put it toward 3 books that can generate a plethora of ideas that can effect my campaign world in a nearly infinite number of ways.
ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
Re: Re: Why don't you but non-WoTC stuff?
OK, but the question was about non-WotC - and therefore, non-Hasbro - d20 products. You do realize there are probably dozens of d20 publishers?
Dogface said:
OK, but the question was about non-WotC - and therefore, non-Hasbro - d20 products. You do realize there are probably dozens of d20 publishers?
Psion
Adventurer
I agree. I think that having lost their best talent with the layoffs is starting to show. They still have a few good people on board, but not enough to tend to every line.
Many products this year -- DDG, Book of Challenges, Stronghold Builder's Guidebook -- have left me saying "eh." Just not enough inspiration IMO.
In the meantime, it seems like d20 publishers are coming up with cooler and cooler stuff.
Tsyr said:
But their lack of detail makes them perfectly customizable in any world. I play in Kalamar, but I run the WotC adventures. So far everything that's developed has been able to be inserted with minor changes in those modules.
RttToEE was okay, but too long of a dungeon crawl in one location. I wish it was broken up into multiple locations really.
If I look at my d20 books I need to notice that a very big part is WotC. Not becouse I like it better but becouse they publish more per month. Now if I look at the % I buy from WotC in number of books, I think its only 30% WotC and the other 70% other publishers.
If I take out the books I say that are very good and skip the PHB, DMG, MM, PsiHB (thats just core rules) I get the next list:
Book of Eldritch Might 2 (Malhavoc)
Chaos Magic (Mongoose)
Manual of the Planes (Wizards)
Occult Lore (Atlas)
Shaman (GreenRonin)
Traps & Treachery (Legends&Lairs)
And from the good Campaign Settings:
Kalamar (Kenzer)
Rokugan (AEG)
Wheel of Time (Wizards)
I think you notice that about every publisher makes a few good things (to my taste) and in general everybody about as often as the others.
Then you also need to take into account that most people don't spend the amount of money on d20 as I do so they're collection is much smaller, also take into account that most people only collect one setting and that the prices in Holland are about 150% of the prices in the US.
Then they're collections are small, and indeed WotC will be a big part of they're collection, and they don't got the cash to try stuff out. So a known setting is often chosen (FR, Grey Hawk & Scarred Lands(known publisher) ). Now lately Kalamar is also selling better in Holland.
Laiyna
If I take out the books I say that are very good and skip the PHB, DMG, MM, PsiHB (thats just core rules) I get the next list:
Book of Eldritch Might 2 (Malhavoc)
Chaos Magic (Mongoose)
Manual of the Planes (Wizards)
Occult Lore (Atlas)
Shaman (GreenRonin)
Traps & Treachery (Legends&Lairs)
And from the good Campaign Settings:
Kalamar (Kenzer)
Rokugan (AEG)
Wheel of Time (Wizards)
I think you notice that about every publisher makes a few good things (to my taste) and in general everybody about as often as the others.
Then you also need to take into account that most people don't spend the amount of money on d20 as I do so they're collection is much smaller, also take into account that most people only collect one setting and that the prices in Holland are about 150% of the prices in the US.
Then they're collections are small, and indeed WotC will be a big part of they're collection, and they don't got the cash to try stuff out. So a known setting is often chosen (FR, Grey Hawk & Scarred Lands(known publisher) ). Now lately Kalamar is also selling better in Holland.
Laiyna
Taren Nighteyes
First Post
The vast majority of my spending is on WOTC products, for a few reasons:
1) WOTC created/owns the d20 system. All of what they produce abides the same balance/rules they created. (usually
)
2) By limiting myself to WOTC books, I limit my spending.
3) There are only so many prestige classes, feats, and special powers I want in my game. This is how I limit them.
Exception - I do buy Malhavok Press stuff by Monte and the gang. They were creators of the 3E system and still, in my mind, are experts of the game - i.e. I know of them and their reputation.
Don't get me wrong, I own RR by S&S, Traps & Treachery by FFG, The Q- Fighter by Mongoose, and Seas of Blood and Broadsides! as well. But I was extremely dissappointed by Q-Fighter - re-introducing the "kits" from 2E, basically.
I am sure there are many worthwhile d20 products that are not made by WOTC, but I have neither the time or money to buy read or buy them all. In addition, I prefer to take a book and use ALL of it, not just the pieces that I think are cool. I do have some house rules, but I've never taken only 1 feat, or one section of a book and added to my campaign. It is all or nothing.
Some companys/products have some serious balance issues, and others needed an editor that knew how to read.
With WOTC, I know the crap I am buying. Going with the devil I know.
Taren Nighteyes
1) WOTC created/owns the d20 system. All of what they produce abides the same balance/rules they created. (usually
)2) By limiting myself to WOTC books, I limit my spending.
3) There are only so many prestige classes, feats, and special powers I want in my game. This is how I limit them.
Exception - I do buy Malhavok Press stuff by Monte and the gang. They were creators of the 3E system and still, in my mind, are experts of the game - i.e. I know of them and their reputation.
Don't get me wrong, I own RR by S&S, Traps & Treachery by FFG, The Q- Fighter by Mongoose, and Seas of Blood and Broadsides! as well. But I was extremely dissappointed by Q-Fighter - re-introducing the "kits" from 2E, basically.
I am sure there are many worthwhile d20 products that are not made by WOTC, but I have neither the time or money to buy read or buy them all. In addition, I prefer to take a book and use ALL of it, not just the pieces that I think are cool. I do have some house rules, but I've never taken only 1 feat, or one section of a book and added to my campaign. It is all or nothing.
Some companys/products have some serious balance issues, and others needed an editor that knew how to read.
With WOTC, I know the crap I am buying. Going with the devil I know.
Taren Nighteyes
MEG Hal
First Post
Ok on another side...those of you who hesitated, what would you want/need to see to be convinced to go for a non-WoTC item? I feel MEG for the last few months has picked up speed on covers, interior art and layout...I always have felt the writing has been strong, so what do you want to see...
catalog?
a free adventure 20+ pages for an item so you can see if it what you like?
Ideas welcome, I was just inspired and wanted to see your opinions.....we are listening.
also, what would your LGS want to see to have them start carrying a line of products or a company?
OK...carry on
catalog?
a free adventure 20+ pages for an item so you can see if it what you like?
Ideas welcome, I was just inspired and wanted to see your opinions.....we are listening.
also, what would your LGS want to see to have them start carrying a line of products or a company?
OK...carry on
novyet
First Post
I buy quite a bit of non wotc material, but I generally spend more time reviewing it for any weird issues that may come up with rules or what not. Sometimes the non-wotc books seem a little unbalanced, but nothing major.
The cool thing is the d20 publishers do a lot of unique and inventive areas that wotc has not or will not cover.
The cool thing is the d20 publishers do a lot of unique and inventive areas that wotc has not or will not cover.
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