Why don't you buy non-WoTC stuff?

[der_kluge]

2. Continue to improve the cover art and hard cover's are a good idea.

Sorry, not buying it. I think the cover art excuse is pretty lame.

Think about it. What kind of awesome cover art has WoTC done? You think the cover art to the PHB/DMG/MM is exciting and cool? It's bland and lifeless if you ask me. How can you possibly compare the cover of some of some of the D20 stuff to the lifeless cover of, say, the ELH? Give me a break!

I grant you, that some of the D20 cover art is just as bland and lifeless (*cough* Quintessential *cough*) but some of it is awesome!

Hard covers? Lame excuse. WoTC splat books all sold VERY well. You think any D20 publisher reached the sales level of DotF, or TaB? Keep on dreaming. WoTC can produce soft-cover books and sell them like hot-cakes. D20 can't.

So, if it's not cover art, and the fact that most D20 stuff is softback, what is your excuse now?

 

[Eosin the Red]

Interesting Question and followups.

Psion disagrees but production values (Art, Paper, Cartography) are generally better at WotC, they have done a good job branding D&D with their 'feel'.

I have bought several non-wotc products but often as not I end up feeling burned or robbed. Now, I basically read the whole thing in the store - if I like it I buy.

Most often I avoid products because they do not provide what I need for my game. No really cool maps that are label light. No cool (BALANCED) Magic, PrCs, Feats etc.... It takes alot of work to fit Witchfire into my standard game which is a low magic, A.D. 800 ish kinda game. Niche (man I hate the way people are pronouncing that these days) stuff needs to really get out and drive into their market. Avalanche has done a good job at that. Their design and production values stink (other than the fly trap covers) and they generally are clueless about the rules part but they usually provide a strong classical neo-earth setting. I get tons of ideas from their products.

I have bought other products (Freeport) just for maps or some other cool trinket?

 

[Numion]

One other thing that I don't like about many, many d20 products is the fact that they're written by so many different authors. Even worse are the ones that are selections of open call submissions (I don't know the proper term for that, sorry ), like Relics and Rituals. I have great inhibitions against paying for netbooks. My friend has tried to bring in stuff from R&R, and they've all had balance issues.

I guess that comes down to author name. I just feel more comfortable buying stuff from Monte than from a whole list of authors who are behind book X.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Sorry, not buying it. I think the cover art excuse is pretty lame.

Excuse?

People can buy or not buy a product for any reason they want to come up with- they don't require validation. Our opinions were invited.

More about covers:

I won't buy a book due to a good cover, but I will refuse to buy a book due to a cover I consider poor: Avalanche is a great example. I don't buy their stuff, and the only reason is their covers. I could care less about what is inside.

FD

 

[Furn_Darkside]

I have great inhibitions against paying for netbooks

Thats a good call- I know I try to avoid books of that nature.

FD

 

[Tsyr]

Heh, I generaly shy away from Avalanche because of their covers too... I regret I had a moment of weakness and bought Jade and Steel, but I'm a sucker for anything even remotely along the lines of Oriental Adventures. I've got I think every d20 product with that type of a theme out.

 

[Dextolen]

I haven't bought much third party stuff mainly because, so far, I'm getting everything I need from the WOTC. I trust WOTC stuff (at least pre-layoffs stuff) to be highly playtested, I think some of the third party stuff is not playtested very much. WOTC also is pretty quick to post official errata, FAQs, etc. There is consistancy in WOTC's layout, maps, etc. that I find appealing.

I also am not to pleased with the recent rash of hardcover, glossy full color books that run $35.00 plus and feature wide page margins, large font and few pages. WOTC charges that much for some books but you can't deny that they use every inch of their pages, and the page count is usually quite high.

Also, I don't want to have to thumb through 30 books to run a game of D&D. When a player comes to me with third party material that he wants to use, I ask for photocopies of the rules because I am not willing to shell out more cash to feed his desire for crunchiness.

 

[MEG Hal]

Re: Re: Why don't you buy non-WoTC stuff?

Most of this stuff contains content that can be plunked into any setting without too much work. I like non-setting-specific D20 stuff - I'll always give that stuff a fair shake. I'm sure your The Hunt: Rise of Evil campaign setting is pretty cool Hal, as are Oathbound and Dragonstar, but in the end I'm not interested in running someone else's campaign world. I want to run mine.

Ok so what about Bluffside a 144 page city book made for any d20 medium magic campaign, a lot of us have generic offerings as well as specific, so I was looking for ideas on how to inform you that we have all of this good stuff with a lot that can be immediately used in homebrew campaigns.

 

[Numion]

So, if it's not cover art, and the fact that most D20 stuff is softback, what is your excuse now?

I'd rather buy pretty books like FRCS. In fact, I consider that to be one of the best value-for-money deals I've got in rpgs. So pretty cover and good art certainly help to win me over as a customer. If B&W softcover costs $30 and a full-color HC costs $40 I'll gladly pay the difference in price. (And I'm a student and money don't grow in trees.)

Why do you say it's an excuse? It's just a personal preference. And wasn't that just what THG Hal wanted to know: what makes people buy products, i.e. what are their preferences?

 

[Storminator]

Ok, so if retailers do not know how do we get them to figure this out? And I live in Tampa area and there is a kick butt LGS in Brandon that has all d20 stuff called Comics Club at and they are online at http://comicsclub.com (I think). But keep the ideas going and I will look into helping where I feel we can, we want brand recognition as well, and are looking for ways to get customers and retailers knowing about us. Thanks

I think some good old fashioned salesmen would help. I know that I've referred my FLGS to a couple of d20 publishers for their "retail locations" pages, but I'm pretty sure those publishers never called the store to pitch products. I know it's a lot of work to go store to store and get people signed up, but that's what works.

As a first step, if I were a d20 publisher, would be to check the retail locators of every other publisher (including WotC), and start calling those people. Send them some samples, refer them to some reviews, and hope to raise the brand's profile.

Not deep, not profound, not easy, but that's business.

PS