BiggusGeekus
That's Latin for "cool"
Storminator said:
This may not be possible given the arrangements the stores have with their distributors. I have absolutely no idea though.
Why don't you buy non-WoTC stuff?
- Thread starter MEG Hal
- Start date
This may not be possible given the arrangements the stores have with their distributors. I have absolutely no idea though.
KB9JMQ
First Post
I buy from everyone equally 
But I have to buy my non-WOTC from online.
In my county of 50K people there is only one place to buy gaming stuff and that is the local SamGoody.
The only non-WOTC thing they have is Crucible of Freya.
They have had it since the day it came out and they still have 18 copies sitting there.
They had 20 but I bought one and someone else must have also.
So I would say make sure it is on the shelves and available.
But I have to buy my non-WOTC from online.
In my county of 50K people there is only one place to buy gaming stuff and that is the local SamGoody.
The only non-WOTC thing they have is Crucible of Freya.
They have had it since the day it came out and they still have 18 copies sitting there.
They had 20 but I bought one and someone else must have also.
So I would say make sure it is on the shelves and available.
Mystic Eye
First Post
BiggusGeekus said:
We are starting such a campaign actually. We can talk to as many retailers as we want too. When they want to order we refer them to the correct source, their distributor.
Victim
First Post
People aren't buying as much d20 stuff because they don't see it for sale. If I go to the local Borders, I find a bunch of WotC products (almost all of them, usually) some S&S sorcery products - probably because they also carry White Wolf stuff - and maybe a few other items that are proven sellers. For example, Borders has been picking up some AEG stuff like Spycraft and Rokugan books. If I go the local Hobbytown, I see even less d20 stuff. They have lots of GURPS, Shadowrun, and some weird games, but no third party d20 products. I don't have actual data, but I'd imagine that more people buy their DnD products at these more generalized stores than at shops that carry mostly RPGs. If nobody sees your products because it's not where they shop, then how are they going to buy it?
Also, I generally look for well balanced mechanics in products, and most d20 guys seem a bit behind WotC in that regard.
Also, I generally look for well balanced mechanics in products, and most d20 guys seem a bit behind WotC in that regard.
EricNoah
Adventurer
Some thoughts:
I don't buy or use PDFs. I want a printed book (or a printed book with a PDF version of the same book would be nice too).
I'm not currently interested in a new campaign setting. I play in the Realms and I find those products to be very good values and used quite a bit.
I'm not currently interested in a new system of magic. I actually don't want to learn a new system if I can avoid it. If one of my players does and doesn't mind coaching me through it when it comes time to put it into practice, that's fine.
I would buy a product that addresses a gap in D&D. So when I get to some seafaring adventures I probably will pick up one of the seafaring rulebooks.
I do like a few new spells now and then, and sometimes new critters -- spells from the Books of Eldritch Might and monsters from Green Ronin's fiend books have seen use in my games.
However, WotC has also put out some books that I personally find less than useful: Deities & Demigods is one; Manual of the Planes was 'ok' but not all it was cracked up to be in my opinion; Faiths and Pantheons was too much like Deities & Demigods and not enough like the 2E Faiths & Avatars; Epic Level Handbook will see zero use.
Things that can turn me off to a publisher or its products: poor or non-existant relationship with the community; general unprofessional behavior (I know, it's not fair, but I watch how they behave in all kinds of threads, not just in the Publisher's Forum); poor production values (as I say, I like the actual printed book as well as the info inside it); lack of attention to detail in products or on their website; any hint that they know better than I do what is "good."
There are dozens of d20 publishers and hundreds of products. I can afford to be very picky!
I don't buy or use PDFs. I want a printed book (or a printed book with a PDF version of the same book would be nice too).
I'm not currently interested in a new campaign setting. I play in the Realms and I find those products to be very good values and used quite a bit.
I'm not currently interested in a new system of magic. I actually don't want to learn a new system if I can avoid it. If one of my players does and doesn't mind coaching me through it when it comes time to put it into practice, that's fine.
I would buy a product that addresses a gap in D&D. So when I get to some seafaring adventures I probably will pick up one of the seafaring rulebooks.
I do like a few new spells now and then, and sometimes new critters -- spells from the Books of Eldritch Might and monsters from Green Ronin's fiend books have seen use in my games.
However, WotC has also put out some books that I personally find less than useful: Deities & Demigods is one; Manual of the Planes was 'ok' but not all it was cracked up to be in my opinion; Faiths and Pantheons was too much like Deities & Demigods and not enough like the 2E Faiths & Avatars; Epic Level Handbook will see zero use.
Things that can turn me off to a publisher or its products: poor or non-existant relationship with the community; general unprofessional behavior (I know, it's not fair, but I watch how they behave in all kinds of threads, not just in the Publisher's Forum); poor production values (as I say, I like the actual printed book as well as the info inside it); lack of attention to detail in products or on their website; any hint that they know better than I do what is "good."
There are dozens of d20 publishers and hundreds of products. I can afford to be very picky!
Buttercup
Princess of Florin
I buy tons of non-WotC stuff, but none of my players have any. Actually, I once had a player in my online game who purchased a volume of Encylcopedia Arcane, but for the most part, I see a reluctance on the part of players to spend money. Heck, two of mine haven't even bought the PHB, but have borrowed it instead.
MY FLGS doesn't carry certain brands, even when I ask them to. For example, if I want anything by Atlas, I have to order it online. They get WotC, Kenzer, AEG and Fantasy Flight. They still have tons of 2e stuff that's been sitting for years (new, not used) so I think they might be afraid of getting burned again.
This weekend we'll be visiting the in-laws in another state, and their city has an excellent gaming store, so I'll probably be spending big bucks to get all the stuff I'm longing for.
MY FLGS doesn't carry certain brands, even when I ask them to. For example, if I want anything by Atlas, I have to order it online. They get WotC, Kenzer, AEG and Fantasy Flight. They still have tons of 2e stuff that's been sitting for years (new, not used) so I think they might be afraid of getting burned again.
This weekend we'll be visiting the in-laws in another state, and their city has an excellent gaming store, so I'll probably be spending big bucks to get all the stuff I'm longing for.
Mostly I get 3rd party stuff to look things over and get new ideas. Our group's basic policy is to try it out, but yank it if it gets out of hand. That's why Relics and Rituals is gone. At some point, we'll get around to reviewing each spell in the stupid thing one by one and deciding what we think is broken and what isn't, but until we have time, it's out.
Q-Fighter got a quick review by two of my players and got pulled. Q-Rogue got the same treatment. So the Mongoose books are out unless they come up with something radically wonderful.
Contrariwise, the Rokugan books are in, as is Traps and Treachery and Spells and Spellcraft. All of the Green Ronin stuff is solid, and the one (okay, there are two, but I just wiped one of the two immediately) problem with BoEM2 was resolved without us needing to throw out the whole thing.
For adventures, so far Fiery Dragon is doing good by us (aside from the map quality) and we're about to do the last of the WotC adventure path, which were all solid except for the one abysmal one everyone should know by now that I hate.
So the problem, THG Hal, is getting in the door, and finding a way to distinguish yourself from other 3rd party companies that have gotten onto our not-so-good list.
I'm going to go way out on a limb and suggest that good adventures are still few and far between.
Q-Fighter got a quick review by two of my players and got pulled. Q-Rogue got the same treatment. So the Mongoose books are out unless they come up with something radically wonderful.
Contrariwise, the Rokugan books are in, as is Traps and Treachery and Spells and Spellcraft. All of the Green Ronin stuff is solid, and the one (okay, there are two, but I just wiped one of the two immediately) problem with BoEM2 was resolved without us needing to throw out the whole thing.
For adventures, so far Fiery Dragon is doing good by us (aside from the map quality) and we're about to do the last of the WotC adventure path, which were all solid except for the one abysmal one everyone should know by now that I hate.
So the problem, THG Hal, is getting in the door, and finding a way to distinguish yourself from other 3rd party companies that have gotten onto our not-so-good list.
I'm going to go way out on a limb and suggest that good adventures are still few and far between.
Wolfen Priest
First Post
(mildly hijackitive)
I prefer most d20 stuff over WotC stuff, because I think the qulity outshines WotC in almost every area, at least IME with the good publishers. And yes, that includes rules balance, cover art, interior art, idea relevance, and idea value.
Speaking of visibility, does anyone else wonder why in the heck every gaming store is loaded down with so much Palladium crap, whether it be Rifts or just Palladium fantasy or whatever, but only has a smattering of d20 products, and the lineup never seems to change? I just don't get why every gaming store I go into has piles upon piles of Palladium stuff; not that it ever seems to be moving off the shelf or anything... but it's always there, taking up space right under the WotC stuff. The d20 stuff is off to the side, which would definitely confuse a lot of consumers. Sadly, I admit, I was confused about it at first too!
It's especially bad when I go there looking for a specific 3rd party d20 product (after having read a few good reviews, for example); the chances of my FLGS carrying it are about 50%. Therefore when I want a product like Dragonstar (for example) I have to order it online.
I prefer most d20 stuff over WotC stuff, because I think the qulity outshines WotC in almost every area, at least IME with the good publishers. And yes, that includes rules balance, cover art, interior art, idea relevance, and idea value.
Speaking of visibility, does anyone else wonder why in the heck every gaming store is loaded down with so much Palladium crap, whether it be Rifts or just Palladium fantasy or whatever, but only has a smattering of d20 products, and the lineup never seems to change? I just don't get why every gaming store I go into has piles upon piles of Palladium stuff; not that it ever seems to be moving off the shelf or anything... but it's always there, taking up space right under the WotC stuff. The d20 stuff is off to the side, which would definitely confuse a lot of consumers. Sadly, I admit, I was confused about it at first too!
It's especially bad when I go there looking for a specific 3rd party d20 product (after having read a few good reviews, for example); the chances of my FLGS carrying it are about 50%. Therefore when I want a product like Dragonstar (for example) I have to order it online.
Furn_Darkside
First Post
Rifts did (and may still have) a big audiance.
My LGS has equal room for Palladium and d20 stuff.
FD
My LGS has equal room for Palladium and d20 stuff.
FD
Wolfen Priest
First Post
Well, yeah, my FLGS has equal room betwixt WotC stuff and Palladium stuff. And if you added in the d20 stuff there'd be more of that.
But still, I guess I just wish Kevin Siembieda would give in and convert his material to d20... otherwise I predict it will die out. I mean, how many new gamers are going to start playing Palladium Fantasy these days with the OGL available? Rifts is one thing, but even there, I suspect Palladium could make a lot more money by going d20.
~my 2 steel coins
But still, I guess I just wish Kevin Siembieda would give in and convert his material to d20... otherwise I predict it will die out. I mean, how many new gamers are going to start playing Palladium Fantasy these days with the OGL available? Rifts is one thing, but even there, I suspect Palladium could make a lot more money by going d20.
~my 2 steel coins
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