D&D 5E "Why don't you just shoot it?"

[Dannyalcatraz]

I did something akin to that back in 1980 or so.

New campaign with a DM I didn't know well, but had a rep as being a "killer": first room had a huge ancient red dragon asleep atop a pile of gold. I figured this ridiculousness would only get worse as things progressed.

So my fearless paladin climbed the mound as quietly as he could, alone. He carefully, gently got onto its neck, right at th base of hits skull. Then, dagger and longsword drawn, he shouted his battle cry, and plunged his long sword into the beast's head from the side. As it woke, writhed in pain and launched itself into action, he repeatedly stabbed it with his dagger, using the longsword as his handle.

It tried to dislodge him, but was unsuccessful. The rest of the party eventually did contribute and we killed it, but most of the damage was done by my pally. The XP I got raised me a bunch of levels on the spot.

I left the group after just a couple sessions. Clearly, "Killer DM" was a misnomer.

 

[Ganymede81]

He would have had some difficulty making those climb checks in full plate. And had either dragon noticed his attempts, he'd have been virtually helpless.

Those sound like rules from 3rd Edition, not 5th Edition. Outside of disadvantage on dexterity (stealth) checks, heavy armor does not provide any penalty to skill checks in 5th Edition. Similarly, 5th Edition doesn't give any sort of AC penalty or "flat footed" to climbing creatures.

But yeah, even serving as a distraction is more helpful than the big ol' nothing that PC was doing in your story.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Well, it was "a few years ago". Yes, we were playing 3.5Ed.

What you describe, though, reinforces my perception that 5th isn't for me.

 

[FrogReaver]

It just feels like whenever the topic of characters not being able to attack in melee comes up, the instant response of "well use a bow lol" makes my eye twitch. Now fortunately 5e is much more forgiving of this tactic than other editions have been, where you needed a lot more than proficiency to be able to effectively deal damage with the bow, but it still bothers me. I'm not saying NOT to have a ranged option, but I think that the topic deserves more examination.

Like, when a player says "I spent a whole combat frightened and unable to engage in melee", rather than responses like "what idiot doesn't carry a longbow", why aren't more people willing to accept that while it is A solution, it's not a great one?

I'd even accept "well, you could carry a javelin. range is terrible though, a bow is better, but obviously you're going to lose a lot of damage potential that way, damage your party no doubt relies on you to provide. here's a few tricks I've used over the years...".

Of course, the best way to overcome these issues is with magic (and magic items, for the magic-deficient), but that leads to a very different discussion...

I think you misunderstand. People aren't dense enough to think a bow is a good option for a character built around melee. Instead what is being said is that it's the best option in a group of extremely bad options.

Magic items can solve a lot of things but I've given up having control over magic items. They are not mine to control and I am happier for it.

 

[ArchfiendBobbie]

He would have had some difficulty making those climb checks in full plate. And had either dragon noticed his attempts, he'd have been virtually helpless.

Going by the ruleset you were using... There was nothing preventing someone else from distracting the dragons.

The wizard tossing fireballs is going to keep the dragons pretty busy. After all, if you're a giant flying naturally-armored engine of death and destruction, are you going to go for the guy tossing explosions or the guy trying to climb a wall?

 

[Sacrosanct]

To the OP:

Um...welcome to D&D, and the realities of the drawbacks of specializing in once certain area. Personally, I would think it's pretty crummy game design to have a character optimized in melee to also be really good at ranged attacks. If you want to be super awesome at melee, don't complain when the situation arises when are aren't able to use melee and you can't do as much damage.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Going by the ruleset you were using... There was nothing preventing someone else from distracting the dragons.

The wizard tossing fireballs is going to keep the dragons pretty busy. After all, if you're a giant flying naturally-armored engine of death and destruction, are you going to go for the guy tossing explosions or the guy trying to climb a wall?

Small party- we barely outnumbered the dragons. The odds of both getting distracted enough to lose track of him for the entire time it would have taken to make that climb approach zero.

 

[Rod Staffwand]

Switching weapons is so much worse than that.

Going from sword and shield to bow vs. a dragon would take:

1. 1 round to doff your shield + interact with object to clean the kobold blood off your sword. (You don't want to put your sword away with foul monster blood on it do you? Have some respect for your equipment. You were trained better than that!)

2. 1 round to sheath your sword (action) + interact with object to retrieve your bow string from its sealed, water-tight pouch. (You keep your bow string in a sealed, water-tight pouch, don't you? A wet bow string is a useless bow string, soldier. And don't get me started about keeping it strung at all times.)

3. 1 round to interact with object to equip your bow + action to string it.

Congrats, you are now equipped for dragon slaying! Best of luck, mighty warrior!

 

[Ancalagon]

Switching weapons is so much worse than that.

Going from sword and shield to bow vs. a dragon would take:

1. 1 round to doff your shield + interact with object to clean the kobold blood off your sword. (You don't want to put your sword away with foul monster blood on it do you? Have some respect for your equipment. You were trained better than that!)

2. 1 round to sheath your sword (action) + interact with object to retrieve your bow string from its sealed, water-tight pouch. (You keep your bow string in a sealed, water-tight pouch, don't you? A wet bow string is a useless bow string, soldier. And don't get me started about keeping it strung at all times.)

3. 1 round to interact with object to equip your bow + action to string it.

Congrats, you are now equipped for dragon slaying! Best of luck, mighty warrior!

This is very realistic. But also D&D is the game that lets you shoot 9 crossbow bolts in a round (... at level 20), so... yaknow.

 

[SmokingSkull]

Honestly the way weapon switching works in 5E just doesn't help at all. Going into houserule territory I'd say make it so you can swap a weapon 1/turn regardless of whether's it's two handed, one handed etc. So instead of just dropping it you put your greatsword away, pull out your bow and boom, arrows nocked and ready to fire. If you have to add some granularity to it make it so you have to have proficiency in the weapon to benefit from this. This makes it so warrior types (who are supposed to know how to use weapons and all) can do their job when it comes down to it.