Its simply don't involve major NPCs without a plan ahead. Most of the time unless you have a clear use for them, just don't use them, tell the players they are indisposed with personal issues.
D&D 5E Why FR Is "Hated"
Its simply don't involve major NPCs without a plan ahead. Most of the time unless you have a clear use for them, just don't use them, tell the players they are indisposed with personal issues.
I'm not the poster you asked, but over the past few years I've been running a bit of Marvel Heroic RP. I haven't had any particular issues with combat. Sometime the PCs (Wolverine, Nightcrawler, War Machine, Iceman) fight minions, sometimes supervillains. There are also social conflicts. MHRP has very flexible mechanics for inflicting complications - anything from being grappled, to being stuck in a pit, to - in one of our sessions - being stuck at the top of the Washington Monument by War Machine.
The game has never turned into a mystery/detective game. There are mysteries (eg why did Dr Doom kidnap Mariko Yashida? who is trying to steal a high-tech Stark Industries multi-person orbital re-entry vehicle?) but these are mostly a backdrop to the action. The answers to the mysteries get made up by me, and so learned by the players, as outcomes of the action rather than as things that the players focus on in play.
Chaosmancer
Legend
Maybe the troubles just boil down to a system issue.
Cold Steel Wardens is very much built for low-powered vigilante games. Which invariably end up being against gangs, mafias, and cults. So, the detective element naturally flows in because things are happening and you need to figure out what they are and who's doing them before you can get to the punching.
And the combat system is brutal (ridiculously slow healing in some cases) so something like "you're stuck in a pit" isn't a typical result unless there is a pit trap. Kind of like in DnD, if you are hit you lose health, only this is clearly actual bodily harm. Problem is, certain builds I've seen completely negate the threat of combat, unless every goon is suddenly packing explosives, because you just can't hit them otherwise.
It's a great system, but I've yet to have a long running game that didn't run into serious problems quite quickly.
GMforPowergamers
Legend
yes, let the flow of the game decide the themes and tropes of the game, not before hand. Even if you all agree before hand it can quickly spread into something you didn't see coming... also why I like using homebrew settings, more leeway like that.
yea, I embrace that... I create 2-3 'cardboard cut out minons (but make sure to watch who to elevate if something hits a good spot) and 1 big pain super villion, and one total joke super villain...that normally gets me through the first few games until I get my feet wet and modfie on the fly...
The D6 system is very narrative driven, and fights are fast so it worked out...but yea without deuse ex machine or just plain "ok you know X" superhero stories are a lot of detective work...
You miss understand the problem if you think any of that is the solution. The player in no way had a problem with it he just was sure I was wrong... infact every time it came up he used the same passive BS I see in FR games all the time (and one of the reasons I hate running/playing the setting) "Yea in your world it's X, but in the real world its Y"
and it isn't just NPCs, its locations... my go to FR example is back when I was just learning the lore and I had 3 players that knew way more then me (each a bit more then the last until the guy who still to this day has read ever novel...)they and another guy who was about as knowledged as me talked me into running a 7 person realms game...and my thought was pretty much what you just said, if I don't bring them in, then I don't have to deal with them.
Then I made the mistake of having a Red Wizard threat... the High mage of Evocation and the High mage of I think it was transmutation were poltical rivals, and the transmutter guy was building a force with the Necro and Abjur guy to strom the boarder of the clossest neighbor... I had set it all up to make the PCs the big heroes, by using an NPC Red Wizard woman of Evocation they already meet at an enclaive (In 3e they sold magic items) tell the PCs how to stop it, by fighting a hard challenge Red Wizard Transmutter... they beat him whole plot falls apart and she can sneak them into the camp but can't help once there... I thought it a cool little adventure inbetween the stuff going on in and around the game...
BOOM my game exploded because I didn't read ahead enough, they insisted on going to see the queen of XXXXX place and I said her seneschal wont let you in...all three players called BS. So I told them she was busy, and they made a big deal about they...I said the queen doesn't have the forces like you guys (9th level PCs) and she would ask you to handle it anyway... but surprise the queen is a member of the JLM and a seven sister who happens to not only be stated as a 30th level sorcerer, but they know all about how her forces are armed and they hate thy, and they should be handling it...
That does sound like a system issue. I don't think a system based around slow healing and death spiral combat, and with builds that allow outstripping the default maths of the resolution engine, is very well-suited for 4-colour-style superheroics. Too gritty!
If you want to run a more comic-style superhero game, and can find a copy of MHRP (out of print because Margaret Weis Productions lost the licence), I would recommend it.
Yaarel
He Mage
Cortex Prime, out next year, will incorporate the MHRP system.
Yaarel
He Mage
Do I want a monotheistic campaign setting? The short answer is, yes. The long answer is, be careful what one wishes for. If the defacto definition of ‘D&D monotheism’ would be the DM is ‘God’ and decides what the Infinite thinks, then that too would objectionable. God is infinite; the DM is less so. Basically, Divine Infinity exists beyond the fabric of space-time, simultaneously past, present, and future. In a monotheistic game setting, the Divine normally intervenes only subtly and indirectly, because, the Divine desires humans to make the world a better place by means of human effort. The risk to humans is real. The good that humans do is real. Normally God is hidden. God is most ‘visible’ when other humans are doing good things. In other words, if the DM wants to supply the team with help via some NPCs or items whose opportune timing is ‘miraculous’, that can be fine and fun. But in terms of actual game rules, monotheism is part of the background flavor without any need for mechanical rules.
What I want from D&D, and what would make me happy, is a setting-neutral Players Handbook. On behalf of the player, and on behalf of the DM.
For the player, I want the player to always decide the spirituality of their own character. Like gender and sexuality, spirituality is an aspect of the deep identity of a reallife human. You cant mess around with the spirituality of a reallife player, unless you have permission from the player, and an opt-in from the player. Similarly, you cant force straight player to play a gay character, or a gay player to play a straight character. You can invite a player to experiment because they might find that entertaining, but if they say, no, it stops there, or the game becomes unfun for that player. You cant force a deeply monotheistic player to pretend to commit idolatry. It becomes unfun. It is nonnegotiable. The player needs a safe space to create a character on the players terms. I want any rules and flavor that the player consults in D&D to be gentle, and to support player choice.
For the DM, I want a setting-neutral Players Handbook. When I DM, I require this. When I create a homebrew campaign setting, I need the game rules to support by world-building DM style. It takes a lot of work to evoke the illusion of a world. I dont want players constantly consulting rules whose flavors and setting assumptions are *wrong*, contradictory and confusing. These disruptions ruin narrative immersion. They break the fourth wall, sotospeak, force meta-gaming, and ruin the vividness of the game. I use flavor to build a world, and am sensitive to flavor text. I find unwanted flavor impossible to ignore, and in the current 5e Players Handbook, the unwanted flavor is everywhere.
Compare how one might flavor psionics. If the official rules as written made every single psionic class and psionic power - even their baked-in mechanical rules - explicitly refer to Farrealms flavor, it would be a dealbreaker for many players, even players who would normally love psionics. As a DM, in order to create a homebrew setting where psionics is thematically meaningful, I have to be able to evoke the appropriate psionic flavor in that setting. I need the rules to at least be neutral. So I dont want to fight against every flavor intrusion on every page that a player opens up to consult its rules. Every single time.
I want real D&D products that *support* DMs who homebrew campaign settings. Especially the Players Handbook that the players must consult.
For both the player and the DM, I need setting-neutral rules. The player needs to define the character, and the DM needs to define the world. The rules need to support this fun that requires alot of work.
I have given up on D&D 5e. As-is,
Players Handbook → Forgotten Realms campaign setting assumptions → polytheism
For me the current PH, thus the 5e game, is unusuable.
Even if WotC put out a pdf, with the 5e Players Handbook content but with neutral rules, that would go a long way to support homebrew campaign settings.
They dont even need to call it ‘Dungeons & Dragons’, maybe call it ‘Quintessence’ (referring to the ‘5th’ edition and to the essential rules), a product line designed to support DMs who homebrew.
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cbwjm
Seb-wejem
I just don't understand this. Nothing in the rules stops a DM from creating their homebrew with gods, no gods, or one god. Even the cleric class description is just a suggestion, nothing stops a DM going and saying that the clerics draw their power from abstract concepts. If you're letting something that is pretty small, like a few gods being mentioned in the books, stop you from playing 5e then I think the issue is with you, not the game because as is, the system does support homebrew. Every edition of DnD has supported homebrew.
Chaosmancer
Legend
Okay, so if I understand you correctly you would like a rulebook with zero flavor text.
I am sorry to say that will never happen, and I think you know that will never happen. I'd really prefer if the books were a little more neutral, but it simply isn't going to happen to the degree where there will be zero assumptions made by the book. You will always have to fight that fight.
So, you either don't use the rules, or you tell your players "We are only using the mechanics of the game, ignore all of the flavor text in the book, none of it applies to my homebrewed world."
Of course, then you need to provide that same detail to the players, through a packet or a website or something similar.
And of course, if you're taking that sort of step anyways, removing the divine magic and divine classes from the game and making your vision of a world work isn't that much more work.
On the player aspect, if someone feels that strongly about the divine in DnD that they would consider playing a pious character idolatry.... then I imagine they aren't going to play a pious character. The majority of my players don't end up picking any gods (which is why my poor pantheon I've spent so much time refining has largely gone unused) and so it is a non-issue at my table. If someone gets offended because those deities even exist and other players interact with them.... I'm not sure what to say. Luckily, it is a bridge I don't think I'll ever need to cross.
But, at this point nearly three years into it, they aren't going to create a player's handbook or DMG or Monster Manual that has zero flavor text. That is simply something that would make no sense for them to do, and actually it wouldn't be that hard to do if you have a PDF. Copy and paste the rules you want, leave out the rest, print that and give it to your players. It'd be time consuming, but not hard.
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