Why hasn't anyone mentioned this yet? (3.5)

[two]

You are right.

So enlarge person gives you 2-3 extra attacks.

Lets compare it with another first level spell, magic missile.

Lets change magic missile so it doesn't work in any restricted area.

Lets also change it so that you need a normal attack roll to hit with each missile, but that you can cast it using the attack roll of someone else in the party

Lets also change it so that the AC of the guy who donates his attack roll becomes worse by 2 points.

Lets also change it so the damage occurs over the course of a couple of rounds.

Finally, lets change it so that you only get to use it if your opponent makes a minor tactical blunder, like rushing OUT of combat (because chances are by the time you cast this, the guy you cast it on is already in melee) and then rushing back in.

Now - what sort of damage should this new magic missile do? Personally, I'd say a few d12's plus the strength of the person who's giving the attack bonus is probably not unfair.

Yeah, good point. 2-3 extra attacks per combat, which scales up as you level, is pretty worthless.

Point taken. What WAS I thinking.

In fact, extra attacks are so harmless I plan to drop all penalties for rapid shot as well as those associated with dual-weilding weapons. It won't change game balance much, since extra attacks are pretty worthless. Thanks for the heads up. Should make for a fun game.

Carry on!

 

[dok]

A few gripes

If you want a Bead of Karma from a Strand of Prayer Beads, it costs 20,000 gp. Or 0, depending on which strand you get it from...


The "animated" shield enhancement is unchanged, which means it still sucks to try & fight with weapon & shield, since you can use a two-handed weapon with an Animated Shield for the same AC. (It actually sucks more now, thanks to revised Power Attack)



Luckblade (three wishes): 142,960, with a creation price of 71,480 gp +5,718 xp.
-8K for the +2 bonus, -2K for the luck bonus on saving throws & - 310 for the Masterwork shortsword leaves us with 132,650 gp market price for three wishes & the once/day reroll power.

A 'book of stat increase +3' is 82,500 gp, with a creation price of 3,750 gp + 15,300 xp

A ring of Three Wishes is 97,950 gp, and costs 11,475 gp + 15,918 xp.

Someone want to explain why a Luckblade costs nearly 1/3 the XP as the Ring of Three Wishes?

Somebody wanna try explaining why three wishes dedicated solely to ability score increases (the books) gets a 15% market price reduction, an 80% creation price reduction, but only a 618 xp adjustment as compared to the unrestricted wishes in the Ring?

I haven't looked up the cost for NPC spellcasting, but I suspect there are going to be more wierdness for comparing the costs of having an NPC spellcaster cast Wish three times.

(oh, and please don't reply with "IMC, we don't allow characters to buy wishes!" That's not what I'm griping about. I'm trying ot figure out why the internal game mechanics are so inconsistent.)

 

[Oldtimer]

Knocked out by nonlethal damage

Another nice change:

If you knock out that guard with nonlethal damage, he no longer has 10% chance of waking up to sound the alarm after just 1 minute.

Really nice!

 

[Vocenoctum]

Re: Knocked out by nonlethal damage

Another nice change:

If you knock out that guard with nonlethal damage, he no longer has 10% chance of waking up to sound the alarm after just 1 minute.

Really nice!

Yes, but if you grapple and Pin him, you have the option of making sure he can't speak!

(While your rogue stabs him to death probably, but whatever

 

[ArcOfCorinth]

Why all the changes to the derro?

 

[youspoonybard]

Re: Knocked out by nonlethal damage

Another nice change:

If you knock out that guard with nonlethal damage, he no longer has 10% chance of waking up to sound the alarm after just 1 minute.

Really nice!

That's bad. My party Barb used to whack people on the head for HOURS to make sure they didn't wake up while we were adventuring : P.

Anyway to stop this?

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Personally, I find hefting GROCERIES to be a pain, but...

Hossein Reza Zadeh's World Record in the 'Clean and Jerk' is 580 Pounds. Almost 23 Strength...

The women's record is a hair under 370 pounds...

Roughly supports Silver Age Sentinels in the notion that the maximum unaugmented human STR is 24 (they used the same limit for all six stats), a number I've been using since I noticed it.

Doesn't mean I stop humans from being stronger than 24-- just that they have to have some reason for being stronger than humanly possible. I'm still working on a conversion system for races with ability adjustments. I'm thinking +3/-3 maximum for every +2/-2 average adjustment.

 

[LGodamus]

for the clean and jerk you only have to lock out your arms...I suspect his number would be alot lower if he had to be able to hold it a full combat round.....which is about 6 times longer than what he is used to.....str would probably drop back to about ohh 18

 

[Lord Rasputin]

I would have thought that body language is definitely charisma, in fact, charisma-central. You're not dodging a blow, you're trying to fool someone - I guess it matters less how fluidly you do it so long as they believe you. Fair enough that that's charisma, IMO.

...and the designers saw an opening to make the score more relevant to combat, perhaps.

Wrong. The idea that feinting is tied to Cha and the Bluff skill are both very bad ideas.

Feinting is a mark of skilled combatants. Not only does this have nothing to do with Cha, it has little to do with Dex -- it's combat experience. Really, the best way of handling this, IMO, is to have a Feint score of BAB + Dex mod. This way, the most skilled combatants -- high-level barbarians, fighters, paladins, rangers and warriors -- will be better able to feint than anyone else. Since Bluff is not even on their class skill list, a high-level rogue would out-feint them in the normal rules, and that's insane.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Feinting and sucker shots are the epitome of the Rogue. Though experienced Fighters learn and use them, it's the Rogue who really shines at them. The Rogue is the class with the special ability that connects to Feinting-- the Sneak Attack, so it makes sense that they're the most adept.

And Charisma does have to do with feinting-- you have to be able to be convincing in your feint. Back in my rowdier days, my favorite was always to hand the sucker my car keys and ask him to hold them. As soon as he grabbed them, I'd smack him plumb in the face. That takes a lot of confidence and persuasiveness-- not only do you have to get a person who's already pissed at you to accept your keys, but you have to overcome his own wariness of dirty tricks.