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D&D 5E Why I Am Starting to Prefer 4d6 Drop the Lowest Over the Default Array.

Wulffolk

Explorer
There is a portion of the fan base that expects to make it to 20th level with every character or they feel that they have wasted their time, and a portion of that group that even feels entitled to. These people tend to prefer point buy or arrays, because they can't imagine investing that much time in an inferior build. I think this philosophy is fine, but it is a symptom of MMO's which are all about the "end-game", where players compete to have the best character possible.

I think that Adventure Paths feed into that MMO mentality. Players feel like they have "lost" the game if they don't complete the path successfully and with the same character that they started with.

When not playing an MMO I much prefer old-school randomly generated attributes. I make no assumption that my character will survive, and my goal is to simply have fun and tell a good story. Sometimes character's die, and a heroic death can make for an excellent story. There is no pressure to have the best stats at the table, because I am not competing against the other players. I am working with them in an endeavor of collaborative story-telling.
 

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canucksaram

First Post
Easy fix for high CON: each time your character is reduced to 0 HP and fails one or more death saves, you lose a point of CON permanently. Don't want to lose the CON? Then drop one point from STR and one point from DEX. Those crippling wounds have an effect over time....
 

You're stretching that Cha 11 mighty thin with this guy...what you describe sounds like about a Cha 6...and much more playable.

Now there's an interesting point. I had in mind a boring Cha 11 fighter who has some weird adventures (I run some weird adventures) that make his history more distinctive than his stats, not just a backstory. It could have equally well been "finds a magic sword," "hatches a dragon egg," or "gains the favor of Vecna the Archlich." But you're right that most players and DMs would interpret someone like that as having low Charisma if it happened in the backstory--I wonder how many of us would reduce the Charisma of a PC who became like that during play? I think I wouldn't, or at any rate I haven't.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Easy fix for high CON: each time your character is reduced to 0 HP and fails one or more death saves, you lose a point of CON permanently. Don't want to lose the CON? Then drop one point from STR and one point from DEX. Those crippling wounds have an effect over time....

In my games that would greatly penalize melee characters more than anyone

Casters would not care about it very much
 

Oofta

Legend
There is a portion of the fan base that expects to make it to 20th level with every character or they feel that they have wasted their time, and a portion of that group that even feels entitled to.

LOL. I don't feel "entitled to" getting to 20th level. But this is an RP game to me, and I rather doubt that some mook is going to pick up a sword someday and say "I'm going to become an adventurer so I can commit suicide".

I approach in game decisions as I think my character would approach them. That's the fun of D&D for me ... pretending for a few hours to be someone else. Someone heroic.

I don't "expect" my character to reach 20th level, adventuring is a dangerous business. But I don't expect my character to just commit suicide by goblin because of metagame reasons either.
 

Wulffolk

Explorer
Honestly, Oofta, I was not calling you out. I was not saying that you, or everybody that prefers point buy or arrays, fall into the group I described. However, I do think that there is a sizeable portion of this fan base that do have the "end-game" mindset learned from MMO's.
 

jgsugden

Legend
Best system IMO: Roll 3d6 6 times. For each of the rolls, drop the lowest number and replace it with a 4.

You get a range of 6 to 16. About half the rolls will be 12 or above. ~20% of the rolls are 14 or above, with ~7.5% (or an average of 1 or 2 in a party) being a 16 at first level. About 10% of rolls are below 10, so roughly every other PC in a party will have a score with a penalty associated with it.
 

Oofta

Legend
Honestly, Oofta, I was not calling you out. I was not saying that you, or everybody that prefers point buy or arrays, fall into the group I described. However, I do think that there is a sizeable portion of this fan base that do have the "end-game" mindset learned from MMO's.

Don't worry, I didn't think you were.

I'm just saying that different people have different approaches and goals for the game. For me I think character first and numbers second. That when I write up a character, it's a character I want to play to 20th, whether or not he ever gets there. Or to put it another way, the person my character represents would want to adventure until their goals are met. If their initial goals are met before the campaign ends, I would re-evaluate whether or not their goals have changed.

It goes back to the reasons to not roll for stats. I don't want to play a wimp, and I would never set my character up to die simply because I was not "interested" in the character. I'm not saying you would, or even that there is anything wrong with it. But there are people that do, that if they have poor stats or the numbers don't work out to be a character they will enjoy playing they set up their character to die.
 

We are doing this (which I stole from this board at some point) after the current campaign ends at 20th (we are close):

Everyone rolls ONE set of 4d6 drop lowest, then each set is written down on a sheet of paper. Players pick the stat array they want from the list, and players can even pick the same one. This way, either everyone is screwed equally, or everyone gets the god stats. :)

That was what I did, with the caveat that the stats were in order (Str-Cha) and you could also use the standard array (arranged to taste) if desired. Worked great!
 

LOL. I don't feel "entitled to" getting to 20th level. But this is an RP game to me, and I rather doubt that some mook is going to pick up a sword someday and say "I'm going to become an adventurer so I can commit suicide".

I approach in game decisions as I think my character would approach them. That's the fun of D&D for me ... pretending for a few hours to be someone else. Someone heroic.

I don't "expect" my character to reach 20th level, adventuring is a dangerous business. But I don't expect my character to just commit suicide by goblin because of metagame reasons either.

It's not a dichotomy. How about "I'm going to become an adventurer so I can go in this hole in the ground and get filthy rich"? How about "I'm going to save my city from Evil Lord Whatsisname"?

The proportion of characters who think to themselves "I'm going to become an adventurer so I can become equal to the world's greatest swordsman [get to 20th level]" ought to be quite small, because seeking power for the sake of power is a very metagamey goal. It's more likely to be a player goal than a PC goal.
 

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