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D&D 5E Why I Am Starting to Prefer 4d6 Drop the Lowest Over the Default Array.


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RotGrub

First Post
LOL. So because I prefer point buy, I'm a bad player. Cute.

You haven't even rolled yet and you're already complaining and drawing hyperbolic conclusions.

It's an outrageous and unsubstantiated claim that characters with lower stats are water boys who can't be Heros. Can you explain how a couple of modifiers in either direction will destroy your play experience?
 

I totally agree that rolling stats is the way to go. It can actually help identify problem players before your campaign gets underway.
Funny, I'd say labeling people you've never met as "problem players" based on a simple playstyle preference is a good way to identify a problem DM.
 

Oofta

Legend
You haven't even rolled yet and you're already complaining and drawing hyperbolic conclusions.

It's an outrageous and unsubstantiated claim that characters with lower stats are water boys who can't be Heros. Can you explain how a couple of modifiers in either direction will destroy your play experience?

The last time I played in a game where we rolled for stats we had 1 character that had 2 18s and no stat below 14. Another person (not me) had a high stat of 14 and all other stats 10 or below. They started out on extremely uneven footing and neither person was happy with the result.

The difference was not "a few points", the difference was that one person could run whatever character they wanted and be a paragon of the class out of the gate and the other person was relegated to staying and the back while the big boys played hero.

The only thing random die rolls guarantee is that your results will be random. The results can, and in most cases will be, quite unfair.

You may enjoy that, and more power to you. I don't. It's as simple as that.
 

RotGrub

First Post
The last time I played in a game where we rolled for stats we had 1 character that had 2 18s and no stat below 14. Another person (not me) had a high stat of 14 and all other stats 10 or below. They started out on extremely uneven footing and neither person was happy with the result.

The difference was not "a few points", the difference was that one person could run whatever character they wanted and be a paragon of the class out of the gate and the other person was relegated to staying and the back while the big boys played hero.

The only thing random die rolls guarantee is that your results will be random. The results can, and in most cases will be, quite unfair.

You may enjoy that, and more power to you. I don't. It's as simple as that.

Why is everyone jockeying for the hero position? Why is the hero the most powerful character? Are your games more like a competition?
 


Oofta

Legend
Why is everyone jockeying for the hero position? Why is the hero the most powerful character? Are your games more like a competition?

Why is it so horrible to want to play a hero? Or to have options on what class to play while still feeling like you are contributing to the team? Especially in a game that will last a year or more? Because the issue is not "competition" it's being overshadowed by other characters 99% of the time and never feeling like you're pulling your own weight.

I could have fun playing a campaign as the second string washouts - if the other players are in the same boat. D&D is a collaborative team game. So much like how I wouldn't feel very useful if I were on the same basketball team as LeBron James, I don't want to play "Pudgy the Wimp" on the same team as "Super Dave".
 

Because that "I want to be the best" trope is completely alien to western media, which instead produces protagonists like Rocky Balboa, Luke Skywalker, and Batman...

Good examples. When Rocky loses the fight against Apollo Creed, he's ecstatic because he went the distance against the national champ and showed Adrian (and himself) that he's not a hopeless loser like everyone thinks. Luke Skywalker doesn't care about "beating" Darth Vader or being "the best"--he wants to bring down the Empire, save his friends, and (later on) redeem his father.

Batman... clearly has issues (vengeance fixation, parental issues, sleeping upside-down like a bat), but wanting power for its own sake is not one of them.
 

I'm glad to hear it worked great. With ordered scores, I'd have been worried about what would happen if one array was clearly more attractive than the others. With reordering, players who picked that array could still show some diversity. With fixed order, it seems like you might easily have ended up with two or three very similar characters.

With "order to taste", you're basically playing on "Super Easy Mode" though, as 4d6 is pretty much already superior to the array/point buy, particularly when anyone can pick any of the stat arrays. The more players you have, the higher the stats end up.

As it stands, we did have two characters with the same base stats (though ultimately modified by race). The 18 Str 17 Cha SET proved pretty hard to resist, but I don't think anyone would think the resulting paladin and warlock are remotely similar characters.

I threw in the standard array as a safety net in case no one rolled a single stat set with a decent prime for someone's desired class.
 

Why is it so horrible to want to play a hero? Or to have options on what class to play while still feeling like you are contributing to the team? Especially in a game that will last a year or more? Because the issue is not "competition" it's being overshadowed by other characters 99% of the time and never feeling like you're pulling your own weight.

If rolling a 14 when someone else has two 18s causes you to feel overshadowed and like you're never pulling your own weight, and there are only 4 or 5 PCs in the group, the core issue there is "player competency," not stat rolls.

If there are two of every subclass of PC already in the party, and they all have higher stats then you, THEN I can see how you might imagine that you're not contributing. But if there's only three or four other PCs, there's always something you can do to materially contribute.

Challenge: sketch out a group of three or four 9th level PCs with high stats (e.g. each one of them has two 18s and no stat under 14), who are so good that no 9th level PC I make with a high stat of 14 can meaningfully contribute to their adventures. (If you want to choose another level besides 9th you can, but it's best if it's at least 5th because at extremely low levels, table-dependent factors like equipment, social contacts, and DMing style will dominate--making it 9th level makes it easier to have an Internet discussion since you can point to concrete abilities.)
 

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