Just found something from a year ago, while clearing out Agent's Outbox. I thought I'd repost it. It's still quite accurate, although lately I've been getting more into the pseudo-philosophical waffle and maybe the complex characterisation (if forced to choose, I'll still take larger-than-life over subtle-but-complex). It must be the beer.
========
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism in D&D
From: Hong Ooi <hong@zipworld.com.au>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 01:57:59 +1100
--------
On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 00:32:21 +0100, Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote:
>Hong Ooi wrote:
>> Aha! Zagreb being of course, the capital of HUNGARY, as shown by the ".hr"
>> in your domain name.
>
>Stop trolling. You know as well as I do that .hr stands for Hyrkania, the
>proud homeland of the people who enslaved Robert A. Heinlein's Conan, and
>I have a post to prove it:
>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=o374ju4i42hi967459ihmj2t45nr8teaat%4
>04ax.com
Aw, crap. I KNEW I should have put X-No-Archive in my sig.
>
>> And I have now seen Hungary TWICE, in that estimable
>> movie "Underworld". It's very pretty.
>>
>> Cor, talk about monochromatic, though. Is it something about ex-iron
>> curtain countries that they're so poor they can't afford all three primary
>> colours or something? Plus I've never seen so much rain in so short a time
>> since Bladerunner.
>>
>> What a damn kickass movie, though. No character development and a plot with
>> holes big enough to drive a Maserati through, but I just have a fatal
>> weakness for brooding vampire babes in black vinyl wielding automatic
>> pistols John Woo-style.
>>
>> Plus wire-fu. Gotta love wire-fu. According to Underworld, vampires are
>> apparently 21st century ninjas, which encapsulates perfectly the attraction
>> to me of the genre.
>>
>> This movie is the best advertising White Wolf could have had, as they start
>> gearing up for the World of Darkness 2.0.
>
>SUBSCIRBE, me too, what you said, and all that stuff.
>
>That film R4WKED.
I feel a strange compulsion to lecture about Underworld to a captive
audience, and you'll do. (Well, actually, I also posted this on agww and
other places, but you'll still do.)
So anyway, I saw the movie for the second time last night, and this time
the flaws that various people pointed out are more noticeable. The plot is
full of holes, some big enough to drive Kate Beckinsale's Maserati through.
The scenes in the mansion are just so much window dressing. The ammunition
expenditure verges on the ludicrous. Speedman's Michael basically spends
the whole movie as a hapless bystander; even in his climactic fight with
Viktor, he doesn't exactly shine. The use of a sword in the final fight
scene is incongruous, given the emphasis on gunfights in the rest of the
movie, and KB looks like she doesn't have a clue which is the sharp end.
None of the characters are particularly deep, and some are woefully
underused (eg whatsername the blonde, Kraven's wannabe mistress).
And yet I still thought the movie rocked on toast. I've been thinking about
just why this is. Long ramble follows.
I think it's because Underworld feels, to me, a LOT like an idealised RPG
session put on film. Its priorities are very similar to what my priorities
are, as a DM/GM. I don't put great emphasis on storyline; as long as events
can be arranged into a semi-coherent sequence, that's good enough for me.
Ditto for Underworld: there's nothing in here that hasn't been seen N times
already, but since the same can be said for most of my adventures, I'm
happy to let it slide.
I also don't put great emphasis on complex characterisation. All I want is
broad-brush stuff: Joe is the brooding loner, Bob is the stout fighter,
Mary is the idealistic crusader, etc. Character development -- is that
stuff like when you go from 3rd to 4th level? And again, Underworld is a
bit like this. The characters aren't _completely_ vacuous, but we're not
talking James Joyce here.
What I DO want in a game is action in spades, featuring characters whose
exploits are larger than life. I don't just mean tactical wargaming, with
maps and minis etc (although I'll use them). I mean fast, furious action,
where the stunts, atmosphere and adrenalin are sufficient to make people
forget about the shortcomings mentioned above. And on this count,
Underworld delivers. The action sequences are some of the best I've seen
for a while, and if I could capture that feel in a game, I'd beable to die
happy. The cinematography and soundtrack all contribute to that vibe;
whatever vampires may be, you know that they're more than just human.
And of course, there's Kate. Personally, in my games I prefer characters
who kick butt and take names, but are more than just psychotic killers. A
violent character who exists only to be violent is just a munchkin, as far
as I'm concerned. Selene may be a killer, but KB does a good enough job of
convincing me that the character still has a soul (metaphorically speaking,
at least). The fact that she's a knockout in black vinyl also doesn't hurt,
but isn't a requirement of PCs IMC.
Now let's see what I definitely DON'T want in a game. I DON'T want lots of
NPCs mouthing platitudes or getting deep into pseudo-philosophical waffle.
The Matrix had action in spades, but it kept getting its head stuck up its
fundament on this count. While Underworld takes itself seriously, it also
doesn't take things so seriously that it gets bogged down.
I DON'T want NPCs overshadowing the PCs. The main characters should be more
interesting than the supporting cast, and so it is with Underworld. Selene
basically carries the movie, and that's what I want to see. Michael is a
bit of a loser, but that's what happens when you're a Real Roleplayer
thrust into a Real Man's game (cf Real Men, Real Roleplayers, Loonies and
Munchkins). He does well enough in the scenes where it matters, as does
Lucien.
I DON'T want a game that's self-consciously a parody. I don't have a
problem with funny stuff in a game, and I'm quite capable of making up my
own humour on the spot. For that, though, I need source material that plays
things straight; I'll probably never play something like Hackmaster or
Toon, for instance. Again, this is basically what Underworld is like. The
black-trenchcoat look is something that would be very easy to lampoon, but
to its credit, it doesn't do that. No, it lets me do it myself, which is
very gracious indeed.
========
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism in D&D
From: Hong Ooi <hong@zipworld.com.au>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 01:57:59 +1100
--------
On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 00:32:21 +0100, Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote:
>Hong Ooi wrote:
>> Aha! Zagreb being of course, the capital of HUNGARY, as shown by the ".hr"
>> in your domain name.
>
>Stop trolling. You know as well as I do that .hr stands for Hyrkania, the
>proud homeland of the people who enslaved Robert A. Heinlein's Conan, and
>I have a post to prove it:
>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=o374ju4i42hi967459ihmj2t45nr8teaat%4
>04ax.com
Aw, crap. I KNEW I should have put X-No-Archive in my sig.
>
>> And I have now seen Hungary TWICE, in that estimable
>> movie "Underworld". It's very pretty.
>>
>> Cor, talk about monochromatic, though. Is it something about ex-iron
>> curtain countries that they're so poor they can't afford all three primary
>> colours or something? Plus I've never seen so much rain in so short a time
>> since Bladerunner.
>>
>> What a damn kickass movie, though. No character development and a plot with
>> holes big enough to drive a Maserati through, but I just have a fatal
>> weakness for brooding vampire babes in black vinyl wielding automatic
>> pistols John Woo-style.
>>
>> Plus wire-fu. Gotta love wire-fu. According to Underworld, vampires are
>> apparently 21st century ninjas, which encapsulates perfectly the attraction
>> to me of the genre.
>>
>> This movie is the best advertising White Wolf could have had, as they start
>> gearing up for the World of Darkness 2.0.
>
>SUBSCIRBE, me too, what you said, and all that stuff.
>
>That film R4WKED.
I feel a strange compulsion to lecture about Underworld to a captive
audience, and you'll do. (Well, actually, I also posted this on agww and
other places, but you'll still do.)
So anyway, I saw the movie for the second time last night, and this time
the flaws that various people pointed out are more noticeable. The plot is
full of holes, some big enough to drive Kate Beckinsale's Maserati through.
The scenes in the mansion are just so much window dressing. The ammunition
expenditure verges on the ludicrous. Speedman's Michael basically spends
the whole movie as a hapless bystander; even in his climactic fight with
Viktor, he doesn't exactly shine. The use of a sword in the final fight
scene is incongruous, given the emphasis on gunfights in the rest of the
movie, and KB looks like she doesn't have a clue which is the sharp end.
None of the characters are particularly deep, and some are woefully
underused (eg whatsername the blonde, Kraven's wannabe mistress).
And yet I still thought the movie rocked on toast. I've been thinking about
just why this is. Long ramble follows.
I think it's because Underworld feels, to me, a LOT like an idealised RPG
session put on film. Its priorities are very similar to what my priorities
are, as a DM/GM. I don't put great emphasis on storyline; as long as events
can be arranged into a semi-coherent sequence, that's good enough for me.
Ditto for Underworld: there's nothing in here that hasn't been seen N times
already, but since the same can be said for most of my adventures, I'm
happy to let it slide.
I also don't put great emphasis on complex characterisation. All I want is
broad-brush stuff: Joe is the brooding loner, Bob is the stout fighter,
Mary is the idealistic crusader, etc. Character development -- is that
stuff like when you go from 3rd to 4th level? And again, Underworld is a
bit like this. The characters aren't _completely_ vacuous, but we're not
talking James Joyce here.
What I DO want in a game is action in spades, featuring characters whose
exploits are larger than life. I don't just mean tactical wargaming, with
maps and minis etc (although I'll use them). I mean fast, furious action,
where the stunts, atmosphere and adrenalin are sufficient to make people
forget about the shortcomings mentioned above. And on this count,
Underworld delivers. The action sequences are some of the best I've seen
for a while, and if I could capture that feel in a game, I'd beable to die
happy. The cinematography and soundtrack all contribute to that vibe;
whatever vampires may be, you know that they're more than just human.
And of course, there's Kate. Personally, in my games I prefer characters
who kick butt and take names, but are more than just psychotic killers. A
violent character who exists only to be violent is just a munchkin, as far
as I'm concerned. Selene may be a killer, but KB does a good enough job of
convincing me that the character still has a soul (metaphorically speaking,
at least). The fact that she's a knockout in black vinyl also doesn't hurt,
but isn't a requirement of PCs IMC.
Now let's see what I definitely DON'T want in a game. I DON'T want lots of
NPCs mouthing platitudes or getting deep into pseudo-philosophical waffle.
The Matrix had action in spades, but it kept getting its head stuck up its
fundament on this count. While Underworld takes itself seriously, it also
doesn't take things so seriously that it gets bogged down.
I DON'T want NPCs overshadowing the PCs. The main characters should be more
interesting than the supporting cast, and so it is with Underworld. Selene
basically carries the movie, and that's what I want to see. Michael is a
bit of a loser, but that's what happens when you're a Real Roleplayer
thrust into a Real Man's game (cf Real Men, Real Roleplayers, Loonies and
Munchkins). He does well enough in the scenes where it matters, as does
Lucien.
I DON'T want a game that's self-consciously a parody. I don't have a
problem with funny stuff in a game, and I'm quite capable of making up my
own humour on the spot. For that, though, I need source material that plays
things straight; I'll probably never play something like Hackmaster or
Toon, for instance. Again, this is basically what Underworld is like. The
black-trenchcoat look is something that would be very easy to lampoon, but
to its credit, it doesn't do that. No, it lets me do it myself, which is
very gracious indeed.
Last edited:
