Why is Animate Dead [Evil]?

[clark411]

Animate Dead is evil because it allows you to instantly skin and take the meat off the bones of any huge or smaller dragon, and then instantly destroy it with a turn (if you're a positive channeler), sending its soul to writhe for a good long time in the realms of Resurrection+ only land.

And doubly so because the paladin looks at you and can't be all hoity-toity about how bad you are when he knows he'll be sitting on a couch lined with dragon skin eating perfectly deboned dragon steaks in a week.

^ true campaign story.

 

[Hand of Evil]

I still say you need to define evil in the game, it is evil because I the DM say so, it is using power that feeds on life, it is the worship of evil gods foes to life, the undead carry and spead illness.

I could say something else and by so doing change it from evil to so-so but that would be defined. The point is just how evil you want to make it, everyone has a little evil in them but it really is not much.

 

[Voadam]

Last I checked, detect evil worked on people and could tell their moral character. If [evil] spells show up on the same chart then the rules don't support the division you're trying to make.



And protecting one's family is generally considered to be a good act but it's a typical of the image of the mob boss who is an evil man. We generally consider being kind to animals a good quality and yet the fact that Hitler was, by all reports, a great animal lover is not thought to change the fact that he was an evil man.

Any campaign that deals in characters rather than cartoons will need to come to terms with the fact that evil people do good things all the time without ceasing to be evil and yet good people cannot do many evil things without ceasing to be good.

The rules do support the division I'm suggesting.

Detect evil will not detect a good person doing an isolated evil action.

Detect evil will detect a good undead as evil.

Any character with an evil alignment will detect as evil as will any spell with an [Evil] descriptor.

So some evil is not detected by detect evil, and some good is deemed evil.

Detect evil can not tell you the morality of an action.

Casting an [Evil] descriptor spell is not necessarily an immoral action, even though the spell detects as evil with a detect evil spell.

 

[jaerdaph]

COULD be evil. A fireball can evil when it's burning down an orphanage. A sword can be evil when you're chopping off innocent commoner's heads.

No. The sword and the fireball spell are "neutral" in and of themselves because it is the motivation of the wielder or the caster that determines if the act of using that sword or casting that spell is evil, not the sword or spell in and of itself.

In contrast, Animate Dead is an evil spell because the SPELL *always* disturbs the eternal rest of the departed, regardless of the motivation of the caster.

Edited for clarity.

 

[Voadam]

No. The sword and the fireball spell are "neutral" in and of themselves because it is the motivation of the wielder or the caster that determines if the act of using that sword or casting that spell is evil, not the sword or spell in and of itself.

In contrast, Animate Dead is an evil spell because the SPELL *always* disturbs the eternal rest of the departed, regardless of the motivation of the caster.

Edited for clarity.

Disturbs the body, but the soul has already moved on to its afterlife, you can't free somebody from hell by casting animate dead on their body.

 

[Anthron]

No. The sword and the fireball spell are "neutral" in and of themselves because it is the motivation of the wielder or the caster that determines if the act of using that sword or casting that spell is evil, not the sword or spell in and of itself.

Skeletons are also neutral (Always Neutral under alignment in the MM) and only follow the verbal command of their creator.

In contrast, Animate Dead is an evil spell because the SPELL *always* disturbs the eternal rest of the departed, regardless of the motivation of the caster.

As Voadam said, the soul of the creature is probably unaware that its body is running around.

Otherwise if some one found the mortal remains of a powerful demon or celestial could they entrap the soul of said creature inside their old body? That would make the spell far more powerful then it is intended I believe.

 

[jaerdaph]

It's more of a respect for the physical remains (and perhaps even the feelings of the living relatives) then I suppose. It has nothing to do with bringing the spirit back, but rather respect for that departed spirit. Disturbing tombs and corpses is just traditionally a no-no in the pseudo-Medieval European culture that D&D is based on by default, like animating corpses to create mindless undead.

In our own history, disection and the study of anatomy was forbidden for centuries, even into the Enlightenment. And I believe there are even some sects of Judaism that do not allow disection or autopsy even today, for example.

YMMV depending on the cultures or ethics of your particular campaign of course. The Klingons from Star Trek, for example, could care less for the corpse when a warrior dies.

Edit: Added more ramblings.

 

[Anthron]

In our own history, disection and the study of anatomy was forbidden for centuries, even into the Enlightenment. And I believe there are even some sects of Judaism that do not allow disection or autopsy even today, for example.

Though again that deals only with Human corpses I doubt such stigma was placed against all corpses. I also doubt in a world where it was possible that most social groups would be so opposed to say a giants skeleton being used to rebuild a few farms that it terrorized. I can even imagine all large cities having a few skeletons on hand for dangerous or unsavory situations. I can see there being a Taboo on human skeletons being used but would there be the same stigma on Orc or Goblin skeletons?

 

[jaerdaph]

I can see there being a Taboo on human skeletons being used but would there be the same stigma on Orc or Goblin skeletons?

Because creating ANY undead creature, even a mindless "neutral" undead creature, be the corpse human or hobgoblin, is considered an evil thing to do (at least in the "default" setting based on Medieval European culture/belief/morality found in D&D). In a sense, it's the moral of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein - Don't Play God. That is why animate dead has an [evil] descriptor, which was the original question.

I'm not making a judgment here, I'm making an observation as to WHY the descriptor is there as was originally asked. If it doesn't fit anyone's particular campaign or style of play, by all means then, remove the descriptor.

Edit: I felt it needed a smiley

 

[Anthron]

Because creating ANY undead creature, even a mindless "neutral" undead creature, be the corpse human or hobgoblin, is considered an evil thing to do (at least in the "default" setting based on Medieval European culture/belief/morality found in D&D). In a sense, it's the moral of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein - Don't Play God. That is why animate dead has an [evil] descriptor, which was the original question.

I'm not making a judgment here, I'm making an observation as to WHY the descriptor is there as was originally asked. If it doesn't fit anyone's particular campaign or style of play, by all means then, remove the descriptor.

Then would not Animate Object have the same problem? Would not creating a Golem of any kind also be evil? How many mages are playing god in every adventure they go on?

I have already removed the evil descriptor in the game and I will keep it off Eyebite in 3.5ed simply because I believe it is the intention and consequence of an action that makes it evil.

I also think that the Evil descriptor has less to do with the supposed morality of medieval times then with the morality we think we have today. If it were possible in medieval times I would expect that people would give as much thought to it as we give to what goes on in slaughter houses today when we eat our morning bacon or cut into our stakes. If it were available in our world I would not be surprised to see undead on a daily basis, and I think that it would be the same in medieval times since humans in the past are much better at using resources available to them then we give them credit for.