Why isn't the fighter a social creature?

[Frostmarrow]

The fighter has always been the game's foremost melee combatant. Outside of combat the fighter has been somewhat athletic but other than that fighters bring little to the skill table.

With the advent of the Warlord we see that there is an archetype for the fighter as leader. Now, In my mind fighters have often taken upon themselves the responsibilities of leadership but the rules support has been weak.

Players playing fighters have disregarded their lack of in game social skills and used their personal leadership skills instead. Without harming the game experience, I might add.

Maybe fighters should get access to strong social abilities and skills? Historically fighters have always been loveable in spite of their bloody trade. Fighters in fiction are often destined to be kings.

Why oh why are fighters in D&D such grey little mice that can only roar?

 

[FireLance]

Why oh why are fighters in D&D such grey little mice that can only roar?

Tradition!

"Because of our traditions, we've kept our balance for many, many years."

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw]Fiddler on the roof - Tradition ( with subtitles ) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[avin]

That's why skill-based systems kick D&D's ass when the subject is avoiding stereotypes...

 

[Tallifer]

The fighter has always been the game's foremost melee combatant. Outside of combat the fighter has been somewhat athletic but other than that fighters bring little to the skill table.

With the advent of the Warlord we see that there is an archetype for the fighter as leader. Now, In my mind fighters have often taken upon themselves the responsibilities of leadership but the rules support has been weak.

Players playing fighters have disregarded their lack of in game social skills and used their personal leadership skills instead. Without harming the game experience, I might add.

Maybe fighters should get access to strong social abilities and skills? Historically fighters have always been loveable in spite of their bloody trade. Fighters in fiction are often destined to be kings.

Why oh why are fighters in D&D such grey little mice that can only roar?

That is the genius of design which is the Warlord and the Paladin. The Fighter is the grunt, the private, the cynical veteran or the wide-eyed patriotic youthful gung-ho soldier. The Warlord is the cunning sergeant, the noble prince, the captain, my captain, or the leader of men. The paladin is the charismatic and courtly knight, the saint, the holy fool or the inspired prophet of war.

That said, I am not a supporter of the low number of skill points Fighters get in the more modern editions. A real life warrior is usually an expert in survival and other related skills like horsemanship, hunting and heraldry. Most Fourth Edition Fighters can basically jump and wrestle. My little experience with 3.5 seems similar.

On another note, which I am not sure supports Frostmarrow's original contention, there are heroes like Cyrano de Bergerac. He is not a leader, so he is not a Warlord. He is not a crusader, so he is not a paladin. He is neither sneaky nor shady, so he is not a rogue. He is a Fighter, a man skilled with the blade and armed with a code of humour; and yet he is the best poet in Paris. Not a Bard, because he does not suck, does not sing in battle and is more amous for his fighting prowess. Perhaps Cyrano is an argument for why the Bard should not suck, even if he speaks in poetry all the time.

 

[Frostmarrow]

I had Baloo in mind but Cyrano is certainly a compelling example. I hope fighter kills warlord and takes his stuff. Oh god I'm getting old.

 

[trancejeremy]

Or, when D&D was invented, you didn't really need rules to role-play social skills. (And for that matter, DMs didn't need thousands of rules for every possible situation)

Indeed, the Fighter was quite sociable - at least once reaching 9th level, he was the only class that could answer the question "Oh yeah, you and what army?"

And now I remember why I left this place years ago - the contrived previous edition bashing....

 

[Tallifer]

I had Baloo in mind but Cyrano is certainly a compelling example. I hope fighter kills warlord and takes his stuff. Oh god I'm getting old.

For my taste, there are already too many different builds for the Fighter. In a class game, it is nice to see a class with a genuinely interesting and fresh set of abilities. I also want to keep the Paladin, Barbarian and Ranger separate from the Fighter. But I can see a system where all four of these archetypes are sub-classes of the Fighter.

P.S. Who is Baloo the fighter? All I know by that name is a big blue bear from Disney's Jungle Book.

 

[Frostmarrow]

For my taste, there are already too many different builds for the Fighter. In a class game, it is nice to see a class with a genuinely interesting and fresh set of abilities. I also want to keep the Paladin, Barbarian and Ranger separate from the Fighter. But I can see a system where all four of these archetypes are sub-classes of the Fighter.

P.S. Who is Baloo the fighter? All I know by that name is a big blue bear from Disney's Jungle Book.

Disney's Baloo teaches Mowgli how to fight.

I like the two fighter builds in Heroes of The Fallen Lands. Knight (sword and shield) and Slayer (greatweapon). They cover a lot of ground.

I like the paladin but I like to see secular leaders too.

 

[trancejeremy]

And let me also add that at least in BECMI D&D, they had a skill system since Gaz 1 (from 1987), which was class neutral, other than being heavily dependent on an ability score. So you could easily have a diplomatically skilled fighter, provided he had a high Charisma.

But still, classes aren't straight jackets - before the skill system, if you wanted to play silent, brooding, monosyllabic warrior, fine. But you could also play a charming, dashing musketeer type - it was up to you how to play it, not the game mechanics.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Because the system is too rigid. Some fighters should be able to be good at social skills.

Why is the average fighter asocial? Because people who fight for a living generally don't need social graces to do so.