Why Metamagic Feats?

[ARandomGod]

You're right, metamagic feats suck, and a prepared caster who uses them is just too lazy to do proper research. And, let's face it, the more common spells (like one similiar to empowered fireball) are very, very likely to have been researched several times already. So don't even do official 'research', just hire someone to do a gather information check for you, and buy the spell from someone who already has it.

Now onto your question: Why doesn't everyone do this?*

Anwer: Their GM's hate them. That's right. They hate wizards and won't let them do reasonable things. Empowered fireballs! Without empower! Too Powerful!! To the Dungeon with the Wizard!!

(Wizard... (sighs) fine, I DDoor out).

That's a similiar answer as to why people take the spell mastery feat. So that they can DDoor out when the GM imprisons them.. (again).

(Of course, the GM could just cut out their tounge or kill them outright, but he won't admit to hating the wizard).

*Editor's note: Everything after the star is meant to be taken as humorous.

Ahem. More seriously. They take the feats either because they don't want to do the research, or they aren't allowed to do the research. Pretty much those are the only two reasons I can think of.

 

[jodyjohnson]

Ahem. More seriously. They take the feats either because they don't want to do the research, or they aren't allowed to do the research. Pretty much those are the only two reasons I can think of.

Or they wish to make Metamagic Rods which have the feats as prerequisites.

Or their campaign is running house rules suggested by Andy Collins in Dragon, or in Unearthed Arcana that allow Metamagic feats 'free' uses per day.

Or feat choice is out of their control (limited bonus feat lists or as class features).

 

[Voadam]

Generally speaking feat plus appropriate spell should be more powerful than a straight spell because it requires more pc resource investment than just a spell. Straight spells are limited to dice per spell level under research guidelines in the DMG, metamagiced spells are not necessarily subject to the same limits for end level results.

Also feats can be applied to different spells, while "improved" versions must be researched individually for each spell. A wizard can apply empower to scorching ray and lightning bolt and cone of cold and acid orb without problem.

 

[sfedi]

Generally speaking feat plus appropriate spell should be more powerful than a straight spell because it requires more pc resource investment than just a spell.

This seems contradictory with what you said below.

Also feats can be applied to different spells, while "improved" versions must be researched individually for each spell. A wizard can apply empower to scorching ray and lightning bolt and cone of cold and acid orb without problem.

So, to have a en empowered version of each spell I must spend more resources (time, money, etc) than with a Feat. Yet the researched spells should be weaker.

See the contradiction?

 

[Crothian]

So, to have a en empowered version of each spell I must spend more resources (time, money, etc) than with a Feat. Yet the researched spells should be weaker.

See the contradiction?

Nope. Not everything is equal nor should it be. Feats are harder to come by then time and money so a feat should be better.

 

[ARandomGod]

Or they wish to make Metamagic Rods which have the feats as prerequisites.

This is a bad idea. Just buy them outright, or do even more research. Overall two feats to make the items is a bad financial investment

Or their campaign is running house rules suggested by Andy Collins in Dragon, or in Unearthed Arcana that allow Metamagic feats 'free' uses per day.

Or feat choice is out of their control (limited bonus feat lists or as class features).

This is a good idea! Houseruling the feat into something useful. However, of course, in that case they're not really taking the feats I was talking about.

Generally speaking feat plus appropriate spell should be more powerful than a straight spell because it requires more pc resource investment than just a spell.

Should be, but they're clearly not. A careful study of the existing spells and relative power levels will show you that a metamagiced spell is less powerful than what a spell of the (spell+metamagic adjustment)'s power level is. Therefore the MM feats are LESS powerful than what a researched spell should be, because you should look at the relative power levels of existing spells when creating new researched spells.

Originally MM probably was meant to follow the formulae's that the designers meant for making new spells. Empower is a very good example of this. The formulae for a spell's increase and decrease in power level relative to spell level is pretty exactly that of "empower" 's power differential. However people (at large, common denominator) like to 'nerf' things. And MM was whittled down to it's current incarnation. Hence the power of a MM'd spell is less than what a researched spell of the same level should be.

So, overall I agree with your statement. A metamagiced spell SHOULD BE more powerful than a researched spell, because you spent a feat to get it. However, since it's clearly not that way, metamagic SHOULD BE increased in power, or magicians SHOULD just research spells and get it over with.

 

[ARandomGod]

Nope. Not everything is equal nor should it be. Feats are harder to come by then time and money so a feat should be better.

And here I have to agree too. Feats are harder to come by, and so the metamagic feats really should be better. But not everything is equal, and this is a great example of that, in that metamagic feats are less then researched spells, in spite of where their power levels should be...

Of cousre, additionally perhaps you're right that not everything really should be better, I mean, you certainly do get to apply MM to more spells at once. And they're great feats for sorcs who have so few spells anyhow. But while perhaps everything shouldn't be equal (I agree with this, as everything is a pretty broad statement), I think these two should be closer to equal. Or, at least MM should come a little closer to what the power of a researched spell should be.As it is it's pretty sad.

 

[jodyjohnson]

Fixed it for you.

Pretty much those are the only two compelling reasons I can think of.

 

[ARandomGod]

Fixed it for you.

Well, I was going to say "intelligent" reasons, but I refrained.

^_^

Because there probably are other intelligent reasons to do it... I just don't see them/agree with them.

 

[Voadam]

Should be, but they're clearly not. A careful study of the existing spells and relative power levels will show you that a metamagiced spell is less powerful than what a spell of the (spell+metamagic adjustment)'s power level is. Therefore the MM feats are LESS powerful than what a researched spell should be, because you should look at the relative power levels of existing spells when creating new researched spells.

Originally MM probably was meant to follow the formulae's that the designers meant for making new spells. Empower is a very good example of this. The formulae for a spell's increase and decrease in power level relative to spell level is pretty exactly that of "empower" 's power differential. However people (at large, common denominator) like to 'nerf' things. And MM was whittled down to it's current incarnation. Hence the power of a MM'd spell is less than what a researched spell of the same level should be.

So, overall I agree with your statement. A metamagiced spell SHOULD BE more powerful than a researched spell, because you spent a feat to get it. However, since it's clearly not that way, metamagic SHOULD BE increased in power, or magicians SHOULD just research spells and get it over with.

I'm not seeing the clearly not better argument.

empowered Fireball and cone of cold seems to favor empowered fireball for damage until 15th+ level when they are even at 15 dice and the higher DC of CoC wins, although you can still cast empowered fireball from the second rank without hitting your buddy in the first rank.

The spell guidelines add 5 dice/level for two levels, empower gives +50% of dice for two levels.