Why Metamagic Feats?

[ARandomGod]

I'm not seeing the clearly not better argument.

empowered Fireball and cone of cold seems to favor empowered fireball for damage until 15th+ level when they are even at 15 dice and the higher DC of CoC wins, although you can still cast empowered fireball from the second rank without hitting your buddy in the first rank.

The spell guidelines add 5 dice/level for two levels, empower gives +50% of dice for two levels.

Cone of cold is a horrific comparison. Use an actual GOOD spell to make even a halfway decent comparison. And look at more spells for that matter, you have to see a *pattern*.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Metamagic feats that I have used as a DM to good effect - Widen Spell, Enlarge Spell, Dmage Substitution, Still Spell, Silent Spell... all without having to create a new spell (which might well fall into player hands). All in all I would just say that the original poster does not like metamagic feats, shrug, and move on, nothing is going to change his mind.

The Auld Grump, shrugging and moving on...

 

[MerricB]

Especially in Evocation, it is very hard to find appropriate spells of each level. Fireball is great because of range and area of effect, and very few other evocation spells match it. Once Maximise and Empower can be used, it becomes appropriate at more levels.

3rd: Fireball
5th: Empowered Fireball
6th: Maximised Fireball
7th: Quickened Fireball
8th: Empowered Maximised Fireball
9th: Quickened Empowered Fireball.



Cheers!

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Most players I've seen rarely take metamagic if they aren't a sorcerer or a spontaneos spell caster of some sort other than bard (clerics and druids use the UA spontanious caster variant in my game). Wizards I've seen will take quicken spell usually and maybe 1 or 2 other metamagic at most. Sorcerers on the other hand seem to take just about at least everyother feat as metamagic.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Especially in Evocation, it is very hard to find appropriate spells of each level. Fireball is great because of range and area of effect, and very few other evocation spells match it. Once Maximise and Empower can be used, it becomes appropriate at more levels.

3rd: Fireball
5th: Empowered Fireball
6th: Maximised Fireball
7th: Quickened Fireball
8th: Empowered Maximised Fireball
9th: Quickened Empowered Fireball.



Cheers!

And my favorite for mass battles (with armies that is] 6th Widened Fireball. Maximized Fireball is great against smaller groups, but widened is king of the battlefield. Fireball does seem to be the most metafeated spell in my games...

The Auld Grump

 

[ARandomGod]

Especially in Evocation, it is very hard to find appropriate spells of each level. Fireball is great because of range and area of effect, and very few other evocation spells match it. Once Maximise and Empower can be used, it becomes appropriate at more levels.

3rd: Fireball
5th: Empowered Fireball
6th: Maximised Fireball
7th: Quickened Fireball
8th: Empowered Maximised Fireball
9th: Quickened Empowered Fireball.



Cheers!

I agree completely. On the other hand, I also see this as the writers of the game being lazy. These spells should BE spells, not just metamagiced expansions.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I agree completely. On the other hand, I also see this as the writers of the game being lazy. These spells should BE spells, not just metamagiced expansions.

So they should more than double the size of the spells section of the PHB rather than have a few paragraphs for a feat?

Frankly I like the feats better.

The Auld Grump, I could have sworn that I had decided not to post in this thread again... I think that I shall blame MerricB.

 

[ARandomGod]

So they should more than double the size of the spells section of the PHB rather than have a few paragraphs for a feat?

Frankly I like the feats better.

The Auld Grump, I could have sworn that I had decided not to post in this thread again... I think that I shall blame MerricB.

They most certainly should. Or, even better, have set values for making new spells from old ones. I mean, there's already an ability to research spells, and here's a feat so that you don't have to use that ability... and we won't tell you HOW to use the ability either. That's lazy.

I mean, they made the feat, they could have easily written out "expansion" spells as well.

 

[jodyjohnson]

At least you've covered all the bases.

Players are lazy, DMs are lazy, and the Designers are lazy.

Time to kick back and bask in the fulness of our sloth.


The next logical step would be to not take any feats at all and research spells to replace any feat you actually want but won't waste a feat slot on.

 

[Li Shenron]

Why would I invest in a Feat when I can research a better version of the spell?

Simply because you can apply the same metamagic feat to all the spells you know.

IMO if you have 2-3 spells which benefit from the same MM feat, it's already worth it, but I have often taken a MM feat and then used it only on ONE spell, and I don't feel like it was a waste.