Why modern movies suck - they teach us awful lessons

[AnotherGuy]

Again, I don't think it's useful to build "us vs them" into these conversations. What do you mean by both extremes? If you can't name the sides, then what's the point of bringing it into a discussion on ENworld? I think we can have this conversation without making it about two opposing sides.

Well other posters @Hex08 and @Blue Orange mentioned upthread left and right leaning outlooks of media. Whether it is useful or not to have these included in the conversation, I don't know. It depends on the topic. tCD is someone that certainly uses politically commentary to attack ideologies that he disagrees with. You mentioned that these are not extensions of any political party but the values of the screenwriters and producers etc.

Nevertheless whether extensions of a movement or the message of an activist through his financing or writings, these ideologies have been adopted by one or more parties and so enforcing the sense of tribalism amongst viewers of such material, particularly if the message takes centre stage.

 

[AnotherGuy]

To put it differently. I really enjoyed DS9.
I'm sure there was political commentary in that series, but I'd have to think about it.
My main take-away is that the storyline was extremely enjoyable and satisfying. The cast were amazing, and the writing was smart, funny and serious when need be. It was great Star Trek.

Should the political commentary becomes the focus instead of the story, that is when I tune out. It is why I don't watch military dramas. IMO I think the message in them is far too strong and possibly has strong bias or even propaganda.

Having said all that, I must confess I loved Boston Legal. There were certainly a lot of political commentary in those last few seasons, but it was partisan. More along the lines of The People vs Big Government, Big Religion and Big Corporation.

 

[Guest 85555]

But to bring this back to the original topic. For me, and this is just me trying to find reasons why, not me saying I've arrived at the correct conclusion, the reasons I find a lot of recent films off-putting:

-Too much CGI: This isn't just about overuse of CGI but how CGI is outsourced and it never really feels like it connects to the movie for me (for a lot of big CGI scenes I feel like I am popping into a music video or other film suddenly).

-Not into superhero movies: If you like these, now is probably a great period in movie making but I have zero interest in super hero films and even non-super hero movies seem to take a lot of inspiration from the super hero films out there

-Not enough breathing space. This isn't a new problem. I think movies in the 80s sometimes had this. But I just feel like I am not getting enough time to sit with the characters in a lot of movies

-Pacing: I like slower paced movies. Pacing feels like it has increased a lot over time, and often watch thirty or forty year old movies soley because they feel like they have more time to breath

-The Scorsese criticism: I agree with Scorsese that a lot these movies coming out feel more like rides than films. That is fine. There have always been movies that were great rides (Raiders of the Lost Ark, Star Wars). But the one time I went to the movies to see a non-ride film in recent years, I couldn't enjoy it because the entire cinema was rumbling from all the explosions and sky battles happening in the rest of the theaters. I'd like to see more variety of movies being made that appear in the cinema.

-Not enough practical effects. This goes hand in hand with the CGI complaint but I think it warrants a separate entry as they aren't mutually exclusive. I miss practical effects because they feel like they have weight and presence int he movie even when they aren't super realistic (at least there is something physically there the actor is interacting with). And practical effects got very good over time so we should be in golden age of practical effects but you just don't see them that much

-Dialogue. This may just be generation but a lot of current movies have a dialogue issue for me, where it feels artificially snappy. I don't mind well done snappy dialogue but a lot of times it feels like the rule of cool is taking over. Some directors can do that (Tarantino's dialogue I have no problem with) but some I find infuriating to sit through because of the way characters banter

-Casts seem too young to me (maybe I am just getting older, but I do think crews of ships and protagonists seems to be aimed a younger and younger audience, and I feel like I am not seeing enough weathered protagonists). I could be wrong here though

This isn't universal. There have been new movies I adored. I just find it harder and harder to enjoy more recent films on the whole.

Note I am not saying modern movies are bad. They just don't appeal to me. Sometimes I try to get people into the movies I like and they give me plenty of reasons why they can't get into older movies (pacing, too many sound stages, etc).

 

[payn]

To put it differently. I really enjoyed DS9.
I'm sure there was political commentary in that series, but I'd have to think about it.

There were numerous political episodes in DS9. One in particular examined racial discrimination in America in the 1950's. This was before social media and internet prominence and I think today those episodes would garner a lot of criticism.

 

[Guest 85555]

There were numerous political episodes in DS9. One in particular examined racial discrimination in America in the 1950's. This was before social media and internet prominence and I think today those episodes would garner a lot of criticism.

while I think shows have grown more political or political in different ways, this is one reason why I think the partisanship around media is bad: people, and again not just one group, are developing a distorted sense of past media and that can lead to throwing the baby out with the bath water: I.e. ‘there is too much politics in media, so there should be no politics in media’; ‘there is too much political criticism of film, so there should be be no political criticism of film’.
A lot if 90s media was very political. I am rewatching alien nation and that has a ton of political subtext. I watched Babylon 5 a couple years back and that too has quite a bit (though I do think it was often handled in a more sophisticated way than many other shows from that era). Star Trek has always been pretty political.

 

[Ryujin]

But it isn't slipping past their defenses is the point: they are willingly engaging with it. They understand the message, even if it is subtle (and Star Trek at least wasn't very subtle). But the quality of writing was there, and it was done in a way that the politics enhanced the material. From the other side of the aisle, Starship Troopers would be the book that did this for me. I don't agree with the politics of the book, but I found it incredibly engaging. It wasn't that he was slipping in ideas and they were going past my defenses: the ideas were clearly there and he was clearly using his story to make a case for his ideas. But I was willing to engage with the Heinlein because it was a well crafted story and he presented his position in a way I found compelling even if I disagreed with it.

I would argue that if it's managing to engage you in subject matter that you don't agree with, then it has slipped past one of the strongest defence mechanisms that people have for their thoughts; confirmation bias.

 

[Ryujin]

To put it differently. I really enjoyed DS9.
I'm sure there was political commentary in that series, but I'd have to think about it.
My main take-away is that the storyline was extremely enjoyable and satisfying. The cast were amazing, and the writing was smart, funny and serious when need be. It was great Star Trek.

Should the political commentary becomes the focus instead of the story, that is when I tune out. It is why I don't watch military dramas. IMO I think the message in them is far too strong and possibly has strong bias or even propaganda.

Having said all that, I must confess I loved Boston Legal. There were certainly a lot of political commentary in those last few seasons, but it was partisan. More along the lines of The People vs Big Government, Big Religion and Big Corporation.

DS9 was full of political, social, and religious commentary. For example the main cast included a former terrorist, with heavy beliefs, and an "other" who was in a position of authority, but whose very existence elicited distrust. That's just the two easiest ones of the top of my head.

 

[Guest 85555]

I would argue that if it's managing to engage you in subject matter that you don't agree with, then it has slipped past one of the strongest defence mechanisms that people have for their thoughts; confirmation bias.

But I think that was more about viewing culture at the time than anything the show did. The one thing that is different here maybe, and I could be wrong is shows did fewer things to drive away viewers with different opinions (some of the more recent shows I have seen sound s but more strident to my ear but I don’t watch enough new stuff to say that for sure). I think my point though was in the 90s we would watch content that was outside our own viewpoints more

 

[MGibster]

Is it? Why is that? Sounds more like selling confirmation bias.

I understand what confirmation bias is but I don't understand how you're using it in this context.

 

[BookTenTiger]

But I think that was more about viewing culture at the time than anything the show did. The one thing that is different here maybe, and I could be wrong is shows did fewer things to drive away viewers with different opinions (some of the more recent shows I have seen sound s but more strident to my ear but I don’t watch enough new stuff to say that for sure). I think my point though was in the 90s we would watch content that was outside our own viewpoints more

Can you elaborate more about this? I'm not sure what that actually looks like