why no epic levels for dieties?????

[Lady Dragon]

I think comparing One of the deities to an epic level character is like comparing a Great wyrm Gold Dragon to a 1st level fighter.Technically that dragon doesn't have any character levels but he has more than enough other special abilities to more than make up for this thus making him the equvilent of a 25th level character.The D&Dg book does not give CR's for the deities so we don't know what there equivelent levels are but you can imagine that they far outshine Epic characters or at least they should.

 

[GenLang]

Epic Class Levels for Deities?

There's only one thing a deity -really- might need epic-class levels for -- deities can't grant divine spells for a class they have no class levels in (aside from cleric/ranger spells). The abilities for a Chosen of * reflect the abilities of the deity itself.

In either case, epic-class levels in that case will be something the GM does personally -anyway- since adding these abilities (if wanted), or defining what a Chosen gets/embodies is a very personal issue for the GM/campaign.

So, I'm not concerned about the deities in D&Dg not having epic-class levels. (What I'm mildly irritated about is that Faiths & Pantheons is almost useless for -changing- or enhancing deities, if you don't have D&Dg. I now have both. Bleah. )

 

[Wikidogre]

Spoken like a true 2e player/DM.

I agree!! besides Pc's should not be fighting Gods in my opinion, even if an epic level pc, did face up to a God, the pc would get crushed. so in a sense making epic levels useless vs a god. just my opinion, and we all know what that means!

Happy Gaming.

 

[Junkheap]

Ok maybe i seem to misunderstanding things a LOT here, but after reading more of the posts i am beginng to understand the following:

The ELH is only/mostly for wanna be powerfull mortals.

The "dieties" from the various books are above and beyond what the elh abilities are.

The elh could bring you(mortals) close to what a diety could be but never a diety.

If the above is so, then it really doesnt matter whether the dieites books have the elh stuff in it. AS long as the PC's can't overtake or do anything to any diety due to the pc's using the elh then it's ok and i retract my previous statements.

 

[Wikidogre]

Ok maybe i seem to misunderstanding things a LOT here, but after reading more of the posts i am beginng to understand the following:

The ELH is only/mostly for wanna be powerfull mortals.

The "dieties" from the various books are above and beyond what the elh abilities are.

The elh could bring you(mortals) close to what a diety could be but never a diety.

If the above is so, then it really doesnt matter whether the dieites books have the elh stuff in it. AS long as the PC's can't overtake or do anything to any diety due to the pc's using the elh then it's ok and i retract my previous statements.

Very well put!
that is what i have been thinking.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Lady Dragon!

Take the stats for Zeus for example they list him as Barbarian-20/fighter-20/cleric-10 which would make him minimum 50th level.

Remember he has 20 Outsider Hit Dice as well.

But then he has a lot of other abilities for example he has 98 ranks in the skill jump wouldn't that make him 95th level.Also his base stats are a lot higher than a 50th level epic character would have using ELH. Also Zeus has access to Divine abilities which are more powerful than Epic feats.

Zeus is about ECL 158/CR49

The only area where I do see a bit of concern would be with the dragons Tiamat from D&Dg seems to be about equal to the greatwrym prismatic dragon though Tiamat might have the slight edge because of divine abilities.But the prismatic dragon have more hit points by far Tiamat-906 Prismatic Dragon(great wyrm)-2,613

Tiamat is about ECL 99/CR42
The Prismatic Great Wyrm is about ECL 76/CR39 (Though I don't have the ELH yet so I can't really make an accurate assessment).

 

[Nightfall]

So you think then a great wyrm force dragon and/or a prismatic great wyrm wouldn't harm Tiamat that much? How about an advanced one Krusty mate? Just curious.

 

[zhouj]

Tiamat and Bahamut's stats appeared in the Manual of the Planes and their CR was 25 . In the D&DG book, it appears they would be at least CR 46-50+. As for calculating CR for gods, I really don't think that 1 Divine Rank is equal to +1 CR more like +2 or +3 CR. After all, 1 divine rank grants a +1 bonus to attacks, AC, saving throws, skills, grants 1 salient divine ability (basically a superpower), and not to mention makes them immortal and grants them free domain spells. Corellon Larethnian's CR, I estimate would be around CR 97. Zeus would be slightly higher. You should see Thor's strength though...92!!! Anway, someone should roll-up a 100th level character to test this theory...
The CR for the great wyrm prismatic dragon is 66 with further advancement possible. Prismatic and Force dragons are not classed under the 2 norma; dragon groups. While its possible, its not likely that a Gold Dragon could eventually surpass Bahamut or Tiamat.
[Added something]

 

[Desdichado]

Couldn't possibly combine the two books. ELH is already probably the longest supplement released by WotC at right about 320 pages.

 

[Lady Dragon]

Upper crust,yes your right I forgot the 20 level outsider so that makes Zeus a minimum of 70th level all the more my point.It difficult to say what his CR would be I think over 100 for certain.

As for the dragon the GreatWyrm Prismatic Dragon has a CR of 66 and he can possible go higher so Like I said I don't know who would win in a fight Tiamat or the prismatic dragon. I think Tiamat needs to be beefed up a bit.