5E Why Not? A Variant Captain Fighter

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
More analysis.
Potential Complaints > Parry and Rally
Abilities do not really scale appropriate to those they help Rally basically stopping a progressively smaller part of the user defense.

In comparison takedown (trip) benefit basically scaling perfect unless you run into really large enemies.
Parry should be CS+level+strength or Dex mod, IMO.

Rally should affect prof mod creatures that can see and hear you.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Parry should be CS+level+strength or Dex mod, IMO.
I was thinking to look at this for clues about what was appropriate. It just seems more complex than looking at page 42 for some reason.


Rally should affect prof mod creatures that can see and hear you.
That is certainly a possibility... though larger numbers could be achieved by trading out an attack in the paradigm
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Why isn't Trip Attack just defined as allowing one to shove the enemy you hit. (then we can move the enemy 5 too when it is useful)? I really do think the normal shove is fine with the size limits but I tend to argue a Martial Takedown/Throw is a superior shove with an attack associated and as you advance get one more size category bonus. Size doesnt matter is a martial artist mantra for a reason.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
What if an enemy can move the location you shove them to in order to gain a bonus on their saving throw?

Enemy choice might not be available for the martial takedown. The attacker then gets the choice.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Riposte and Trip are apparent winners in the wild popularity contest of the current maneuvers.
And we have adjustments for even them. Heh.

Lunge attack also seems poorly named for what it does (which is mechanically more like a rebounding strike as you leap out and leap away)

Acrobatic Bounding Attack where you can either return to your location or move beyond the target 10 feet and are considered disengaged. Feels like something Xena might do then.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Riposte and Trip are apparent winners in the wild popularity contest of the current maneuvers.
And we have adjustments for even them. Heh.

Lunge attack also seems poorly named for what it does (which is mechanically more like a rebounding strike as you leap out and leap away)

Acrobatic Bounding Attack where you can either return to your location or move beyond the target 10 feet and are considered disengaged. Feels like something Xena might do then.
Well, lunge is supposed to model the lunge of a fencer, which with an early rapier would be quite a long reach, without leaving your starting space.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Well, lunge is supposed to model the lunge of a fencer, which with an early rapier would be quite a long reach, without leaving your starting space.
From what I have seen fencing lunges are well not like that they do end with you closer with either clenching when it didnt quite work or an act of withdrawal from the target or yourself which feels distinct or in some arts passing through past the target (the latter is common in Kendo which I am experienced with) because it carries the body weight behind the weapon as part of the damage dealing. I am less certain we should be considering one approach regardless a more flexible maneuver might be both more useful tactically to players and allow distinct visualizations.

Many fencers aside from Thibault and Distreza were umm lets call it dying left and right because their Lunge was really poor defensively (akin to the brash strike from 4e) the combatants skewered each other from what I have read and Its why our favorite intelligent fighters were so scary by controlling tangential approaches.

Though I suppose attacking from a reach outside your opponents you become better defended in some sense not sure this mechanic represents that aspect super well either.... hmmmm. Still just thinking about Lunge.

Am I right in saying one can lunge then just run without disengaging?
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
You mentioned wanting to improve Martial Adept>
hmmmm oh look linear and quadratic shows itself
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Note making the Meta Maneuvers a Fighter only thing allows the fighter to do maneuvers better and significantly more often (than say a Paladin who took Martial Adept) if they want to pay the prices...
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Note making the Meta Maneuvers a Fighter only thing allows the fighter to do maneuvers better and significantly more often (than say a Paladin who took Martial Adept) if they want to pay the prices...
Perhaps we could level gate the Meta Maneuvers?

Scan for openings is not really useful til you hit level 5
Brash maneuvering is potentially useable at low levels but not very recommended and the same for Extreme exertion
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
A riposte or parry or warning shout pretty much has to use an Exertion or a CS die they are unlikely to be the product of a scan for openings though if the CS die effect of a meta maneuver lasts till the beginning of your following turn it would be possible to scan the battlefield on your turn then shout a warning to an ally or riposte an attack against some enemy who makes an attack using that.

The exertion while not exact is basically going to be like a one to one trade on the parry so close to pointless except the maneuver does cost a reaction so there is a clue that an exertion should usually be something less that a CS die and attribute of self damage - which was the plan anyway, but it does confirm the balance thought.

Exertions are probably going to be cheaper and cheaper as you level in a relative sense so there is that to consider before we go making sure maneuvers scale. But then again every thing is relatively cheaper you have more CS die so it costs less and the CS die is larger.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
You’re gonna have to put up a draft, man. I’m having trouble keeping track of what all you’ve got going on.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Absolutely. The OP goal is just to give the fighter some support options to make the class more interesting.
Yeh I have a bunch of ulterior motives in this stuff perhaps this might synopsis some.
  1. Enable at-will maneuvering for more frequent fun fiddly bits
  2. Enable more situational multi-attacks (Berserk Flurry and Great Cleaved and Attacking on the Run - minion clearing in 4e terms)
  3. Use flexible expenditure of the native extra attacks and built in defensive abilities of the fighter as resources to enable the above two.
  4. Better balance the maneuvers we have.
  5. Better balance the fighting styles we have and introduce Leader ones
  6. Use more maneuvers to provide versatility in things other than attacking (includes out of the box defending and leading and battlefield control or even mobility and single strike damage booms) ie a wider variety of maneuvers for the Battlemaster and a few for the Champion
  7. Enable level gated awesomeness in maneuvers not just more of them.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I forgot to mention making Mental Attributes a part and parcel to some types of Fighter
(not just casters) and other things as well.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Sounds to me like a full variant fighter that should be built from the ground up.

Could lose Action Surge and the extra feats in exchange for a short-rest half-caster level of manuever use (ie, 1 die per level, recharge on short rest), then swap in the suggestions we agreed on early in the thread, where you boost the team rather than yourself with Second WInd, Indomitable, etc.

From there it's just making new manuevers and replacing old manuevers with more interesting or full powered versions.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
swap in the suggestions we agreed on early in the thread, where you boost the team rather than yourself with Second WInd, Indomitable, etc.
That kind of thing I think of as evoke the Chainmail Hero and Superhero Figures (even if you are playing Champion without feats enabled) they had warlord like ally inspiration and enhancement and inducing fear in enemies. So that is another that needs to be outside of the Battlemaster maneuvers I think. An Uber ability at intimidation with a low action cost for extra measure... it is a presence less an an action. Then perhaps indeed subclasses could get variations on the presence.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Could lose Action Surge and the extra feats in exchange for a short-rest half-caster level of manuever use (ie, 1 die per level, recharge on short rest), then swap in the suggestions we agreed on early in the thread, where you boost the team rather than yourself with Second WInd, Indomitable, etc.
Picture this though.... at level 3, brash maneuvering provokes an attack and gets an extra for you, action surge you now have 2 extra attacks and cs die to do some really awesome maneuver. A paladin is doing smites sure but the fighter too now has some real nova capabilities.
 

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