Why Psionics is broken and what to do to fix it

[wildstarsreach]

I personally love to play Psionics characters. I do see where they have distinct advantages as well as limitations. Most of their powers are short range. This does not balance that all the powers do not have dice limits unlike Arcane or Divine spell casters. 1st and 2nd level spells have between 5 and 7 dice damage typically. 3rd and 4th are at 10 dice, 5th and 6th at 15 dice and 7th and 8th are limited to 20 dice. The Arcane or Divine spellcasters have to prepare their spells in advance. They have a greater selection and theoretically more versatility, but experience gained is generally based on direct results. Also, they don’t have the 3 components of verbal, somatic and material components that spell casting has. To add, a Psionic character can make a concentration check to stop a visible display from being seen that he/she did something. A spellcaster would have to take several feats for this kind of stealth spellcasting to equal what you get with Psionics.

The feats for Psionics powers just add cost to the powers unlike spellcasting which adds that the spells have to be memorized at higher levels to utilize their advantages. To cast a maximized and empowered fireball would be an 8th level memorization doing 90 pts. An energy burst 3rd level of fire by an equivalent manifester of 15th level, would do 94 points of damage. Not much more but this could be done round after round till the cows come home or the psion runs out of points. Now look at disintegrate, a maximized disintegrate would be a 9th level spell memorized doing 204 points vs. 156 points for the equivalent manifester. This is provided that the creature fails a fortitude save. The manifester will have at least 6-10 tries at disintegrating the opponents vs. 1-2 for the spellcaster.

What is even more the problem is the prestige class Cerebremancer. Both Arcane and Psionics use the same prerequisite intelligence. The wizard class makes it possible for a psion to go all out on the offensive with his Psionics and use his wizard class to supplement the defensive.

Given the above premises, let’s look at powers by level. Any not mentioned are not unbalancing in general. Specific combos could make them a problem.

1st level powers

Crystal Shard: This should be limited to 5 dice. It’s great to give another damage option of physical damage vs. energy damage.

Energy Ray: This should be limited to 5 dice. This is so broken at medium to high levels because you the option of any of the 4 types of energy to utilize. A spellcaster has to memorize the specific type of spell or take separate feats to be able to substitute different energy types. That is one feat per energy type. There is an alternate to having one type of energy known at the beginning and either having a feat to add different energy types and/or a knowledge skill, “elements” to add an additional type of energy every 10 ranks that they have in it. This would be for all the energy powers here. The first energy power would also determine the higher level powers taken later as the character advances.

Force Screen: This should not have augmentations. A spellcaster has to have a higher level spell to get more armor class.

Inertial armor: This should not have augmentations either. This is double dipping compared to the spellcaster. Combined with Force Screen at 17th level, the manifester could get a 30 AC.

Mind Thrust: This is the real power gem that should be limited to 5 dice. A 15th level manifester who has the empower and maximize feats could do 135 points on a failed will save. There aren’t many creatures that can take much of this kind of damage. It does a d10 per level which is well above any other damaging power without a special condition.

Vigor: This is the other gem of the 1st level Psionic powers and should be limited to 5 power point total for augmentation. The 25 extra hit points per use exceeds the second level spell false life which gives a d10 + 1 point per level of the caster to a maximum of 20.

2nd level powers

Ego Whip: This should cap out a 5 dice of charisma damage. It’s great against most creature that use innate spellcasting or charisma base powers.

Concussion Blast: This should be limited to 7 dice. This is yet another type of damage, force, very few defenses.

Energy Adaptation Specified: As Energy Adaptation. This should be a 3rd level power to make it equivalent to the spellcasters ability to protect.

Swarm of Crystals: This should be limited to 7 dice.

Energy Missile: As with Energy Ray but limited to 7 dice.

Energy Push: As with Energy Ray but limited to 7 dice.

Energy Stun: As with Energy Ray but limited to 7 dice.

3rd level powers

Energy Bolt and Energy Burst: As with Energy Ray but limited to 10 dice.

Energy Retort and Energy Wall: As with Energy Ray about different types of energy.

4th level powers

Energy Adaptation: This should be changed to have an augmentation more than 1 type of energy. The advantage is to have multiple types of energy defended against. For a 4th level power, this outstrips the Arcane of divine spellcasters at 3rd level spells. Otherwise, this should be a 6th level power because it defends against 5 types of energy simultaneously up to 30 points each per attack. The possible other fix is that you can put this up multiple times, each guarding against a specific type of energy.


5th level powers

Energy Current: As with Energy but limited to 15 dice.

Psychic Crush: This power should be at 6th where save or die spells begin.

True Seeing: This should be 6th since its spellcaster equivalent is 6th.

6th level powers

Breath of the Black Dragon: This should be limited to 15 dice.

Psionic Disintegrate: This is possibly the most unbalancing power. At 17th level, the current Psion I have in play can do 23 disintegrates at the minimum of 11 power points and 14 times at full manifester power. A sorcerer at 17th level could only do 6 of these. The potential of having to deal with so many disintegrate can be anti-climatic for both the DM and players when this power so often used. A way to fix this would be to have a DC 20 fortitude save for the Psion. If he makes it by 3 or more, he could use the power on the next round. If the Psion makes the save from 0 to +2, he must wait one round. If the Psion fail, he must wait 2 rounds. If the Psion rolls a 1, he may not use the power for the rest of the encounter. This represents that this power is very draining upon the Psion.

7th level powers

Energy Conversion: As with Energy Adaptation. If this is unchanged, then it should be an 8th level power.

Energy Wave: As with Energy Ray but should be limited to 20 dice.

Ultrablast: This should be limited to 20 dice.

The 8th and 9th level powers seem to be balanced. Adding Feats that would increase dice limits as the spellcasters have, and feats that would allow different types of energy with the dice limits would go a long way to fixing what most DM’s have in complaints about Psionics. I don’t think that this will entirely fix all the problems but would go a long way to powering down the overwhelming power a Psion can bring to a game.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I personally love to play Psionics characters. I do see where they have distinct advantages as well as limitations. Most of their powers are short range. This does not balance that all the powers do not have dice limits unlike Arcane or Divine spell casters. 1st and 2nd level spells have between 5 and 7 dice damage typically. 3rd and 4th are at 10 dice, 5th and 6th at 15 dice and 7th and 8th are limited to 20 dice. The Arcane or Divine spellcasters have to prepare their spells in advance. They have a greater selection and theoretically more versatility, but experience gained is generally based on direct results. Also, they don’t have the 3 components of verbal, somatic and material components that spell casting has. To add, a Psionic character can make a concentration check to stop a visible display from being seen that he/she did something. A spellcaster would have to take several feats for this kind of stealth spellcasting to equal what you get with Psionics.

The stealthy manifesting is poorly explained. I think a psion manifesting a power would be obvious, in the sense that they're concentrating on something. If they manifest a Charm power, maybe no one would notice. But if they manifest Recall Death, people will look suspiciously at them.

The feats for Psionics powers just add cost to the powers unlike spellcasting which adds that the spells have to be memorized at higher levels to utilize their advantages. To cast a maximized and empowered fireball would be an 8th level memorization doing 90 pts. An energy burst 3rd level of fire by an equivalent manifester of 15th level, would do 94 points of damage. Not much more but this could be done round after round till the cows come home or the psion runs out of points. Now look at disintegrate, a maximized disintegrate would be a 9th level spell memorized doing 204 points vs. 156 points for the equivalent manifester. This is provided that the creature fails a fortitude save. The manifester will have at least 6-10 tries at disintegrating the opponents vs. 1-2 for the spellcaster.

What is even more the problem is the prestige class Cerebremancer. Both Arcane and Psionics use the same prerequisite intelligence. The wizard class makes it possible for a psion to go all out on the offensive with his Psionics and use his wizard class to supplement the defensive.

Given the above premises, let’s look at powers by level. Any not mentioned are not unbalancing in general. Specific combos could make them a problem.

1st level powers

Crystal Shard: This should be limited to 5 dice. It’s great to give another damage option of physical damage vs. energy damage.

Seeing how you have to pay for extra damage dice, I disagree.

Energy Ray: This should be limited to 5 dice. This is so broken at medium to high levels because you the option of any of the 4 types of energy to utilize. A spellcaster has to memorize the specific type of spell or take separate feats to be able to substitute different energy types. That is one feat per energy type. There is an alternate to having one type of energy known at the beginning and either having a feat to add different energy types and/or a knowledge skill, “elements” to add an additional type of energy every 10 ranks that they have in it. This would be for all the energy powers here. The first energy power would also determine the higher level powers taken later as the character advances.

I agree it's way too flexible when it comes to selecting energy types. I disagree with the damage limit, however. The power point cap - no more power points can be spent on a power than your manifester level - still applies.

Force Screen: This should not have augmentations. A spellcaster has to have a higher level spell to get more armor class.

Hmmm... maybe I should agree with this one.

Inertial armor: This should not have augmentations either. This is double dipping compared to the spellcaster. Combined with Force Screen at 17th level, the manifester could get a 30 AC.

I disagree with this one, though. (And an AC of 30 isnt' that great at 17th-level anyway.) There are better Mage Armor spells. I think Mage Armor should have had scaling (or higher level versions should have been included) in the core rules. So I blame Mage Armor for this one.

Mind Thrust: This is the real power gem that should be limited to 5 dice. A 15th level manifester who has the empower and maximize feats could do 135 points on a failed will save. There aren’t many creatures that can take much of this kind of damage. It does a d10 per level which is well above any other damaging power without a special condition.

I agree that 1d10 per power point is excessive. I don't agree on the damage limit.

Vigor: This is the other gem of the 1st level Psionic powers and should be limited to 5 power point total for augmentation. The 25 extra hit points per use exceeds the second level spell false life which gives a d10 + 1 point per level of the caster to a maximum of 20.

I think the Mind's Eye version (basically 3 temporary hit points per manifester level) was more blanaced than 5/level. Vigor doesn't last nearly as long as False Life. I don't think it's fair to compare it.

2nd level powers

Ego Whip: This should cap out a 5 dice of charisma damage. It’s great against most creature that use innate spellcasting or charisma base powers.

This one could have been Will negates. I don't see a need for a cap per se, but maybe it scales too well.

Concussion Blast: This should be limited to 7 dice. This is yet another type of damage, force, very few defenses.

It's also a single target power (at least, single target without augmentation). I don't think this power needs to be changed.

Energy Adaptation Specified: As Energy Adaptation. This should be a 3rd level power to make it equivalent to the spellcasters ability to protect.

Maybe.

Swarm of Crystals: This should be limited to 7 dice.

No.

Energy Missile: As with Energy Ray but limited to 7 dice.

EM needs more change than that.

Energy Push: As with Energy Ray but limited to 7 dice.

No.

Energy Stun: As with Energy Ray but limited to 7 dice.

Fix the save DC issue, and maybe nerf the Electricity variant. I don't think the damage dice need to be capped.

3rd level powers

Energy Bolt and Energy Burst: As with Energy Ray but limited to 10 dice.

Doesn't need that cap. It has an ML cap.

Energy Retort and Energy Wall: As with Energy Ray about different types of energy.

Probably right on this one. The amount of damage dealt is pretty small, though.

4th level powers

Energy Adaptation: This should be changed to have an augmentation more than 1 type of energy. The advantage is to have multiple types of energy defended against. For a 4th level power, this outstrips the Arcane of divine spellcasters at 3rd level spells. Otherwise, this should be a 6th level power because it defends against 5 types of energy simultaneously up to 30 points each per attack. The possible other fix is that you can put this up multiple times, each guarding against a specific type of energy.

I'd forgotten this one.

5th level powers

Energy Current: As with Energy but limited to 15 dice.

Doesn't need the cap, but might be overpowered compared to Call Lightning.

Psychic Crush: This power should be at 6th where save or die spells begin.

I don't like this one. It's like Phantasmal Killer ... but I never liked that spell. But on that note, Phantasmal Killer is a save or die 4th-level spell.

True Seeing: This should be 6th since its spellcaster equivalent is 6th.

It's a 5th-level cleric spell, and a Seer special from 2e.

6th level powers

Breath of the Black Dragon: This should be limited to 15 dice.

Nope.

Psionic Disintegrate: This is possibly the most unbalancing power. At 17th level, the current Psion I have in play can do 23 disintegrates at the minimum of 11 power points and 14 times at full manifester power. A sorcerer at 17th level could only do 6 of these. The potential of having to deal with so many disintegrate can be anti-climatic for both the DM and players when this power so often used. A way to fix this would be to have a DC 20 fortitude save for the Psion. If he makes it by 3 or more, he could use the power on the next round. If the Psion makes the save from 0 to +2, he must wait one round. If the Psion fail, he must wait 2 rounds. If the Psion rolls a 1, he may not use the power for the rest of the encounter. This represents that this power is very draining upon the Psion.

That's not a good way to fix it. That's a penalty rather than a limit. You can't force the psion to roll a "one".

7th level powers

Energy Conversion: As with Energy Adaptation. If this is unchanged, then it should be an 8th level power.

Maybe. I need to use this one more.

Energy Wave: As with Energy Ray but should be limited to 20 dice.

No need. Metacap applies. Doesn't need the multiple energy types. I only recall one power like that from 2e, and it didn't do great damage.

Ultrablast: This should be limited to 20 dice.

No need. Metacap applies.

The 8th and 9th level powers seem to be balanced. Adding Feats that would increase dice limits as the spellcasters have, and feats that would allow different types of energy with the dice limits would go a long way to fixing what most DM’s have in complaints about Psionics. I don’t think that this will entirely fix all the problems but would go a long way to powering down the overwhelming power a Psion can bring to a game.

Well, I disagree on the damage dice cap, because of the lack of free scaling. If psions had something like free scaling, then such caps would make more sense.

I think the biggest offender on the list is Disintegrate and other save-or-die powers.

 

[Psion]

Okay, not going to peicemeal through this, just re-emphasize: Since you pay a PP for every dice of damage, you are effectively paying the cost of a higher level power when you increase damage. Capping it (beyond the PP limit of the character's manifester level) makes no sense.

Think of it this way. Normally you expect a 3rd level spell like fireball to be capped at 10 dice. So letting a psion pump a 3rd level power to 11 dice is bent, right? Wrong. If he is paying 11 PP for the ability, he is paying the equivalent of a 6th level spell, whose cap is higher than 10.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

The only major issue I've run into as a DM with multiple Psions is with Mind Thrust. It just is too easy for the Psion to blast the more weak-willed enemies into oblivion, and the all-or-nothing aspect only partly acts as a brake on its use.

 

[wildstarsreach]

Okay, not going to peicemeal through this, just re-emphasize: Since you pay a PP for every dice of damage, you are effectively paying the cost of a higher level power when you increase damage. Capping it (beyond the PP limit of the character's manifester level) makes no sense.

Think of it this way. Normally you expect a 3rd level spell like fireball to be capped at 10 dice. So letting a psion pump a 3rd level power to 11 dice is bent, right? Wrong. If he is paying 11 PP for the ability, he is paying the equivalent of a 6th level spell, whose cap is higher than 10.

Again, a 1st level power like Energy Ray is still a 1st level power even if you spend 17 PP. Spending 17 PP does not make it a 9th level power.

 

[Psion]

Again, a 1st level power like Energy Ray is still a 1st level power even if you spend 17 PP. Spending 17 PP does not make it a 9th level power.

I agree. Neither shold it be. Though you have paid the power cost for a 9th level power, you only paid the "powers known" cost of a 1st level power. But since you are effectively overpaying at that point if you are paying 17 PP compared to a power of the same level, capping it at a low dice total is sort of pointless.

 

[Lorgrom]

Again, a 1st level power like Energy Ray is still a 1st level power even if you spend 17 PP. Spending 17 PP does not make it a 9th level power.

No it just costs as much as a 9th level power.

After reading the thread, I have a feeling your base problem stems from a point based magic/psionic system vs the slot based system. The point based system they decided to use for psionics is quite balanced. The Psion (or Wilder or Psiwarrior or ...) exchanges the equlivent of a higher spell slot (more PP to active the power as powerful as they wish) to get that additional effect. A better way view powers as having somekind of Meta effect already built into the description. Your still limited by your level (hence the max PP you can spend to manifest). While spells on the other had do increase in power without costing the mage a higher level spell slot. Going with your view, a Fireball would always do 5d6 damage as a level 3 spell, but if you wanted it to do 7d6 then it would use up a 4th level spell slot.

 

[Nifft]

In my experience, Psionics is as balanced as Sorcery.

Psions don't ever feel like they have enough Power Points.

-- N

 

[DreamChaser]

IIRC, the greatest potential weakness of powers like Inertial Armor is that no matter how heavily you augment them, they remain 1st level powers (or what ever base level they started as). This makes for easy dispel.

The energy powers are great yes. I have always thought that this is the way that 3e was going to do spells when I first saw the sneak peak as to the energy desciptors and such. I have always asked myself "why only FIREball?" Now clearly, this allows psions to really tailor their powers to the situation they are in. That is great for them.

BUT

The augmentation cost makes it really easy to burn through your PP really fast.

And as I have said before in threads like this, the greatest imbalance from Psionics comes from the fact that all too often they are only incorporated on a piecemeal basis. There are numerous magical items, monsters, and powers that can make a psionic character's life a living hell, draiing power points, inflating costs, etc. If these are not incorporated along with the psion, then the psion is way too strong in campaigns with only a few encounters.

I know that someone is going to retort that they don't want to have to throw a brain mole or a catapsi spell against the psionic character every day; that it is not realistic and ends up an intentional attack specifically against the psion.

I respond in advance that you don't have to. Do it once or twice without pulling punches and the IDEA that it COULD happen will change the behavior of all but the most foolhardy players. Each day he will have to wonder if today he will need some extra points later to account for an encounter with eyes of power leech, a thought eater, or a psion with catapsi or power leech.

This is equivalent to a wizard or sorcerer. Each of these two classes could choose to use all their spell slots on offensive spells. Heck, all of their 2nd through 4th level slots could go to scorching ray (with some prepared with energy substitution and or heighten spell). 5th through 7th could be spent on disintegrate, and 8th and 9th could be spent on polar ray. First level spells could be used for mage armor and a few utility spells.

BUT no wizard (and few sorcerers) would ever do such a thing; why? because what if they need dispel magic at some point during the day? what if they encounter a creature with an insanely high touch AC or that is incorporeal? What if they encounter a golem? Each of these concerns (which only come into play because the DM plans a range of encounters during the day) keeps the wizard from loading up on just ray spells.

Just my thoughts.

DC

 

[wildstarsreach]

No it just costs as much as a 9th level power.

After reading the thread, I have a feeling your base problem stems from a point based magic/psionic system vs the slot based system. The point based system they decided to use for psionics is quite balanced. The Psion (or Wilder or Psiwarrior or ...) exchanges the equlivent of a higher spell slot (more PP to active the power as powerful as they wish) to get that additional effect. A better way view powers as having somekind of Meta effect already built into the description. Your still limited by your level (hence the max PP you can spend to manifest). While spells on the other had do increase in power without costing the mage a higher level spell slot. Going with your view, a Fireball would always do 5d6 damage as a level 3 spell, but if you wanted it to do 7d6 then it would use up a 4th level spell slot.

Nope, that is not what I'm saying. Spells go up automatically but have dice limits. The manifester level limit is the amount of points spent in a particular round. This would include all the enhancements. Having a dice limit would in no way stop people from playing Psionic characters but might give those DM's who have completely outlawed them in their campaigns to reconsider. I'm playing a 17th level Psion 4/Wizard 3/Cerebramancer 10 without the restrictions I suggested. A couple of the players and the DM have expressed reservations that it's broken. I understand where they are coming from. I love the versitility and can see where in some cases that in order to challange my character, he may be killing several of the other character in our campaign.

I've played since the 70's and played the old Arduin system by David Hargrave which was a mana point system. This allowed that you could cast a fewer high level spells or scads of lower level spells or any combination in between. If you were 10th level casting a fireball, it would only do 5 dice unless you paid the cost again to do 10 dice. I love the system that allows me on the fly to do what I'm doing but may DM's see this as abusive and won't allow it in. I'm suggesting something in the middle ground that would allow more of these characters in gameplay.

A wizard of 12th level will lose to a Psion of 12th level 75-80% of the and with Temporal Acceleration will win more often. This means that the Wizard is under powered compared to the Psion or the Psion is over powered. My suggestions pull the Psion back to a 55-70% win ratio.