Why Psionics is broken and what to do to fix it

[wildstarsreach]

I found with Dimension Door that you can spend 6 points as an augment to have D. Door as a move action. Would this mean that you could D. Door and then take any other actions unlike standard D. Door where it ends your turn?

 

[Liquidsabre]

I found with Dimension Door that you can spend 6 points as an augment to have D. Door as a move action. Would this mean that you could D. Door and then take any other actions unlike standard D. Door where it ends your turn?

Looks like they can use a standard action and *then* use DD as a move action via this ability.

 

[Tikiman]

With XPH you have to use Complete Psionic because it used has errata on XPH.

Complete Arcane has errata in it (weaponlike spells chiefly). How come you can ignore that but you can't ignore it when psionics does the same thing? Why do you have such a double standard for psionics and magic?

And this doesn't change the fact that you are comparing XPH+non-core to core alone. In fact, this means that you were never comparing XPH to core at any point, but you said you were. Please stop being disingenuous like this. It's very hard to not flame someone when they appear to be lying to you.

And why can't you use just the errata from the book?

 

[Zimbel16]

Non-linear Power Point costs

I have an idea sprung from Thanee's posts on Psion power vs. Core Spellcaster power (See post # 176 ). To summarize, it's that point-based spellcasting gives more of the top-level powers per day than normal spellcasting.

5th PP total 25+10=35
10th PP total 88+30=118
15th PP total 195+52=247 (-1 PP per manifestation)
20th PP total 343+100=443 (-1 PP per manifestation)

A 5th level psion can manifest roughly 7 fully augmented powers per day.
A 10th level psion can manifest roughly 12 fully augmented powers per day.
A 15th level psion can manifest roughly 18 fully augmented powers per day.
A 20th level psion can manifest roughly 23 fully augmented powers per day.

My question is: what if the power point costs were non-linear in comparison to the effect? Would this not solve the problem?

Let's seperate out PP into two categories: The amount spent "Spent PP" And the amount that the power's effect is at "Effective PP". Caps (for spending PP) are based on the Spent PP alogrithm (not merely Manifester Level) Obviously, in the XPH, these numbers are always the same. However, they need not be:

Here's a first pass at a formula, let's see what you think:

Spent PP = Floor(Effective PP^Beta)

Where Beta is 1.1, we get:
Effective Spent
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 7
7 8
8 9
9 11
10 12
11 13
12 15
13 16
14 18
15 19
16 21
17 22
18 24
19 25
20 26

So above 5 PP, the Manifester is spending "extra" power points that get "wasted" in the creation of the effect. What effect would this have on Thanee's analysis?

5th PP total 25+10=35
10th PP total 88+30=118
15th PP total 195+52=247 (-1 PP per manifestation)
20th PP total 343+100=443 (-1 PP per manifestation)

A 5th level psion can manifest roughly 7 fully augmented powers per day.
A 10th level psion can manifest roughly 12 10 fully augmented powers per day.
A 15th level psion can manifest roughly 18 14 fully augmented powers per day.
A 20th level psion can manifest roughly 23 18 fully augmented powers per day.

So somewhat better, but probably not as good as we'd like - from this measure, a LV 20 Psion is still better than a core spellcaster.

Where Beta is 1.3, we get:
Effective Spent
1 1
2 2
3 4
4 6
5 8
6 10
7 12
8 14
9 17
10 19
11 22
12 25
13 28
14 30
15 33
16 36
17 39
18 42
19 45
20 49

So above 2 PP, the Manifester is spending "extra" power points that get "wasted" in the creation of the effect. What effect would this have on Thanee's analysis?

5th PP total 25+10=35
10th PP total 88+30=118
15th PP total 195+52=247 (-1 PP per manifestation)
20th PP total 343+100=443 (-1 PP per manifestation)

A 5th level psion can manifest roughly 7 4 fully augmented powers per day.
A 10th level psion can manifest roughly 12 6 fully augmented powers per day.
A 15th level psion can manifest roughly 18 7 fully augmented powers per day.
A 20th level psion can manifest roughly 23 9 fully augmented powers per day.

This is far closer to a "core" spellcaster (but the Core spellcaster will have far more low-level spells). Since this would be all their power/day, perhaps it should be upped a bit, to say 1.2?

Where Beta is 1.2, we get:
Effective Spent
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 5
5 6
6 8
7 10
8 12
9 13
10 15
11 17
12 19
13 21
14 23
15 25
16 27
17 29
18 32
19 34
20 36

So above 3 PP, the Manifester is spending "extra" power points that get "wasted" in the creation of the effect. What effect would this have on Thanee's analysis?

5th PP total 25+10=35
10th PP total 88+30=118
15th PP total 195+52=247 (-1 PP per manifestation)
20th PP total 343+100=443 (-1 PP per manifestation)

A 5th level psion can manifest roughly 7 6 fully augmented powers per day.
A 10th level psion can manifest roughly 12 8 fully augmented powers per day.
A 15th level psion can manifest roughly 18 10 fully augmented powers per day.
A 20th level psion can manifest roughly 23 13 fully augmented powers per day.

I like these numbers. I also like the idea that a LV 9 power costs more than twice the amount that a LV 5 power does.

 

[wildstarsreach]

I have an idea sprung from Thanee's posts on Psion power vs. Core Spellcaster power (See post # 176 ). To summarize, it's that point-based spellcasting gives more of the top-level powers per day than normal spellcasting.

Edited for length.

I like these numbers. I also like the idea that a LV 9 power costs more than twice the amount that a LV 5 power does.

I like the idea in principle but I think that the bookkeeping problem will be more than players want to mess with.

A simpler solution would be to make 1/2 you power points can be spent on power costs and the other 1/2 can be spent on augmentations. Once you rune out of the augmentation half you can only use the base power. You can not use the first part of your PP's to augment but you can use your augment PP's to pay for base powers.

What do people think?

 

[Tikiman]

Here's a first pass at a formula, let's see what you think:

The problem I'm seeing is that this doesn't actually solve any problems. In games where the psion normally doesn't run out of PP (1-2 encounter sessions) your system will have the psion paying more PP, but he still won't run out, so he'll still just pump out power after power. If there was a 3rd encounter he might run dry. Worst of all, if you were normally a nice player and rationed your PP all by yourself, this system would now bend you over and go to town on you in encounter 4. The wizard would still have lots of firepower, but you'd be left with a crossbow. So, in games with too few encounters, your system does nothing, and in games with DMG recommended 4/day encounters you are now a gimp. This would encourage people to only play psions when they're overpowered. No offence, just my honest take on what your system would do.

What do you think of the system I had in post #334, where you give the psion a slice of his PP pool every combat (basically forcing him to ration)? I think it achieves the affect you're looking for, but on a per encounter basis instead of per day.

A simpler solution would be to make 1/2 you power points can be spent on power costs and the other 1/2 can be spent on augmentations. Once you rune out of the augmentation half you can only use the base power. You can not use the first part of your PP's to augment but you can use your augment PP's to pay for base powers.

This is an interesting system, but I can't really see the benefit in it. The only thing this would prevent is the use of lower level powers augmented to their max. However, the psion would simply switch to using higher level powers augmented to their max (save or dies probably). A level 20 psion with your rules could still pump out 20+ maxed out disintegrates. All you've done really is forced people to use their higher level powers more often, limiting flexibility but not overall impact. I suppose they'd also waste some XP making 6th level versions of their favorite lower level powers (like Astral Construct, Energy Missile, etc).

I don't like the overall flavor of this system, and I wouldn't want to play a psion with it (mostly due to having to keep track of two different pools), but I don't think it would reduce the power of the psion so others may like it.

 

[Bacris]

As soon as you start using Complete Psionic, you open the door to Complete Arcane, Divine, and Adventurer, and any semblance of balance is destroyed.

So, either go Core vs XPH or Core+Complete vs XPH+Complete.

You can't have it both ways and not be a hypocrit.

 

[wildstarsreach]

I found due to someone pointing out the word 'or' in Energy Adaptation, that this power has been misinterpreted by me and a good many other people.

This power is 4th because you don't have to choose at the time of manifesting which type of energy it protects against. You choose at the time of attack which type if it currently up or instantly manifested. This still only protects against 1 type of energy and not all 5 simultaneously as I had previously thought. You have protection vs. any of the five energy types until you are attacked. From that point forward you only have protection against that type previously protected unless you manifest EA again.

That also goes with energy conversion.