• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

D&D 5E Why should I allow Multiclassing ?

keterys

First Post
Maybe as you see it, but in my home game I have a wizard (Inv) 3/ Warlock of the Blade (4) and he is having a blast..
That's a much more reasonable point to multiclass, absolutely.

As opposed to, say, Harry being a 16th level wizard picking up levels of warlock. Let's see, no 9th level spells, no end kickers, but he can cast Sleep 1/rest?

You and I read diffrent books... there is a steap price.. dresden IS mab's... she can take his powers away with a snap of her fingers.. she already did it once to prove a point.
You may have wanted to not cut off your quote before I specifically talk about Harry and costs.

But, yes, there are certainly costs. And they are _not_ levels of warlock.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


sidonunspa

First Post
That's a much more reasonable point to multiclass, absolutely.

As opposed to, say, Harry being a 16th level wizard picking up levels of warlock. Let's see, no 9th level spells, no end kickers, but he can cast Sleep 1/rest?

You may have wanted to not cut off your quote before I specifically talk about Harry and costs.

But, yes, there are certainly costs. And they are _not_ levels of warlock.


why did I let my self get dragged in again...

this discussion like like arguing politics... your already solidly in the "No" side of the discussion and there is no way to change people like you to "Yes, but..."

and yes in my opinion the best GM's... universally... are the "Yes, but..." and "Yes, and..." types

(as an aside Herry, taking a level of warlock picked up Fuzari..... Ray of Frost cast at his level... and some bad ass at will abilities (don't warlocks have a false life ability?).. warlocks are more about those then their spell casting.

your looking at the details instead of the spirit of the deal he made...
 

keterys

First Post
If he gets to keep Cait Sith as his familiar, then those levels of warlock were totally worth it :)

What I'm trying to actually convince you is that Harry Dresden is a horrible example of a D&D character. He just made a magical agreement that gave him the D&D equivalent of +8 Str, +4 Con, Resistance Cold, Cold Mastery and conversion as a feat, and more. That's not something you do in a D&D game and it's not something that can or should be covered by multiclassing.

People should feel free to make deals with powerful forces without touching the warlock class. Requiring the warlock class is a route that leads to madness.

The conversation gets even weirder when people want the mechanical trappings of the warlock class, but don't want the specific bonds. But I think it's a reasonable argument that replacing "The Fiend" with an Efreet works thematically; and RPing as a cambion or changeling who has no true pact, but a strong connection nonetheless.
 

airwalkrr

Adventurer
Big block explaining why I don't like multiclassing...

Is there any good reason why I should allow MCing?
Nope.

Since multiclassing is a default rule in the PH, it would be prudent to inform your players of this house rule up-front. If your players like to min/max they might be disappointed, but will respect your forthrightness. It's always easy to allow things later than it is to take them away. I'm still running PF (but reading 5e with great interest) for now, and when I switched from 3.5 to PF there were already several supplements for PF. I limited my players to the core rulebook for almost a year and even restricted a few things there. As time went on, I've allowed more stuff, but my players have found that they don't think all the bells and whistles from the other books are necessary and hardly ever use them now that they are available.
 

Ahrimon

Bourbon and Dice
Nope.

Since multiclassing is a default rule in the PH, it would be prudent to inform your players of this house rule up-front. If your players like to min/max they might be disappointed, but will respect your forthrightness. It's always easy to allow things later than it is to take them away. I'm still running PF (but reading 5e with great interest) for now, and when I switched from 3.5 to PF there were already several supplements for PF. I limited my players to the core rulebook for almost a year and even restricted a few things there. As time went on, I've allowed more stuff, but my players have found that they don't think all the bells and whistles from the other books are necessary and hardly ever use them now that they are available.

While I agree with your basic notion that it's good to let your players know what rules you are using for a game I do have to point out that the multiclass rules are optional in the PHB and not a default rule. So not using them would not be a house rule. It's the same with feats.
 

airwalkrr

Adventurer
While I agree with your basic notion that it's good to let your players know what rules you are using for a game I do have to point out that the multiclass rules are optional in the PHB and not a default rule. So not using them would not be a house rule. It's the same with feats.
Been playing D&D way too long to expect that the majority of players will see anything printed in the PH as optional regardless of how it is presented. I am just being practical. I believe most players will sit down to a game billed as 5e expecting that multiclassing is allowed unless otherwise specified. If 5e had actually been as modular as WotC led us to believe, things might be different. But it seems like the PH is more a set of assumptions than a set of modules DMs are expected to choose from. Just my opinion.
 

Ahrimon

Bourbon and Dice
Been playing D&D way too long to expect that the majority of players will see anything printed in the PH as optional regardless of how it is presented. I am just being practical. I believe most players will sit down to a game billed as 5e expecting that multiclassing is allowed unless otherwise specified. If 5e had actually been as modular as WotC led us to believe, things might be different. But it seems like the PH is more a set of assumptions than a set of modules DMs are expected to choose from. Just my opinion.

In any edition prior to 5th I would be right there with you. I just wanted to point it out since it's explicitly called out as optional in the PHB. I'm away from my book right now, but I believe those two sections even have language about checking with the DM to make sure that they are available. It's part of the modularity that they've provided for the fans of various editions.
 

steeldragons

Steeliest of the dragons
Epic
Been playing D&D way too long to expect that the majority of players will see anything printed in the PH as optional regardless of how it is presented.I am just being practical. I believe most players will sit down to a game billed as 5e expecting that multiclassing is allowed unless otherwise specified.

That may be what they expect, but the first [block of text] they read when they sit down with the 5e PHB and turn to the [chapter?] page about Multi-classing (or Feats), will state (quite clearly) that multi-classing and feats are to-be-approved-by-the-DM options. So, as presumably intelligent human beings capable of reading comprehension and adapting to their environment, they will then have the information and capacity to alter their expectations and note a difference to their experience of what has been [in other PHB's] before.

If 5e had actually been as modular as WotC led us to believe, things might be different. But it seems like the PH is more a set of assumptions than a set of modules DMs are expected to choose from. Just my opinion.

I do not feel that all that much is "a set of assumptions." The classes, sure. A player could reasonably assume that every class is permitted. Abilities are a given, but method of creation (as always) has options. Races? Half of them are called out as "Uncommon" and I'm not sure [don't recall the wording right now and not bothering to look it up] if it specifically calls out that DMs may/may not permit certain races in their games/settings or not. But it [the PHB] seems set up that the reader should understand, these "Uncommon" races are not to be automatically assumed as available. The traits/flaws/bonds bit and Alignment seem very "eh. Use 'em, come up with your own, or don't." Backgrounds, in general...:erm: are a nice new bit of crunch and fluff but strike me as entirely optional. Not using BG's in your game is not going to substantially change/ruin/weaken your PCs. They just kinda give the players a "jump off" point to think about the character as a person with a life before play and create some kind previous history. They really don't strike me as assumed. Spells, well, as always are fairly up in the air as to what will and won't be in from game-to-game, simply based on player choices, let alone if a DM wants to get into the nitty-gritty of saying "that/this spell doesn't exist/isn't allowed/hasn't been seen in a thousand years."

I agree that it sounds like the bevy of "modular rules options" that has been toted has not met the mark many were envisioning. I, personally, would have expected most optional/modular stuff to be in the DMG, not the PHB. But the few optional things in the PHB sets a nice tone, to/for me, I think, of "This is a new edition. Don't assume/expect everything is as it was before" Haven't seen a DMG yet, but from how folks are talking about it here, it sounds like you are correct that it "fell short" to some expectations and there is a lot of stuff missing that folks were "waiting for" in terms of pure crunch/rules options.

I'll undoubtedly have much more to say about it next week after I get my hands on an actual DMG [IhopeIhopeIhope...c'mon Krampus! Papa needs a new DMG -and MM].

Also, just my opinion. Wouldn't want anyone feeling I was being insulting or coming off as a know-it-all or anything.:angel:
 

Stalker0

Legend
I dont "owe" the DM anything, but I recognise the extra effort that comes with being a DM.

I personally do take it a step further. I think players absolutely owe the DM something. Dming is harder than playing, and there are generally fewer people willing to take the job.

That doesn't mean you deal with a DM tirade or anything of that note, but I think players should "go with the flow" a bit to allow for the game to continue.
 

Remove ads

Top