MoogleEmpMog said:
MASSIVELY disagree. I flatly refuse to play D&D below 3rd level, and would never even think of running it. I can't see a single thing about it that could be construed as fun, much less appropriate to any genre of fantasy I'm familiar with. Plus, it's yet another dramatic and unexplained shift in tone, feel and power level.
I expected the disagreement. Grim and gritty is a flavor and doesn't have to appeal to everyone. I'm less fond of it than I used to be, and won't miss it much. Still....
Exen Trik said:
mhacdebhandia said:
That's not insulting at all. Asian mythical martial arts are just fairy-prancing, eh?
Well, I've seen that movie. Loved that movie. I love the whole wuxia genre. And I'm going to have to agree, lightly tip-toeing across the land at hundreds of feet per step is very much like fairy-prancing
Exen has the right of it. I meant fae, nothing else. I couldn't really think of a better description for it, but it does fit IMO.
That mode of movement is something that I just find incongruous with a pseudo-Medieval European flavor. I don't care if the game can handle more than that, but it's roots are generally pseudo-Medieval European or pulp. That flavor is what I'm interested in.
It would be completely different if I were saying L5R shouldn't support wuxia or Exalted characters should be able to opt for being generally mundane. But, I started playing D&D because it acceptably modeled the genre I found most interesting. My interests and style have shifted a bit within that genre, but haven't really changed in a big way. I would be unhappy to have to leave the game after all this time, not because I've changed, but because the game has.
Rules updates are good -- great, even. I'll gladly admit 1E had quite a few warts. Just don't change the flavor of the game, or what it's intended to model, too much.
AllisterH said:
I honestly am stunned that many people don't think a fighter should eventually by level 15 be able to master his body and move over mud/water/air as he could walk on regular ground back when he was level 1.
That's not mastery of his body. That's mastery of the environment around him. The fighter's path isn't one of mastering the earth or air. It's honing his fighting ability. The wizard masters the environment.
I find it difficult to believe that some people have a hard time with that distinction. If that's not your preferred play style, great. But you can't honestly fail to see why someone might feel a fighter (without arcane study) should never be able fly without outside aid.
I'm not talking about the studious monk, contemplative philosopher-warrior, or even the devout paladin. I'm talking about the mentally deficient, raging lump of muscle who will never learn to read, but has a body built for killing things. He learns the sword, he fights and fights until he is better than any man alive. He eschews books, gods, and anything else that he cannot feel with his hands and see with his eyes. There is no calm meditation, only tantric thrashing and howling. His skill, strength, and toughness eventually surpasses anything found on Earth and would be considered and unnatural. But, in a world with demons lords plotting, he is ideal for a front line combatant.
He may have acquired a magic sword, or even a ring that lets him fly, but these things effects are things that he wouldn't learn on his own.
Mallus said:
Right... I find this whole 'I want my character to be mundane but his equipment extraordinary" business baffling, but to each his own.
"Mundane" may not be the best word. If you've played Mage (Ascension or Awakening), I'm more referring to the split between Coincidental and Vulgar magics. In D&D, I want the vulgar stuff reserved for the arcanists or other mystics. What the fighter does may be ludicrously improbably, but it isn't quite as flashy as a fireball.
I would stick to Conan D20 and True20 and pay no further attention to D&D from that point on.
