D&D 5E Why sleeping shouldn't be a long rest

I have a rough write-up for rules for a 3 rest structure.

Short rests as-is. This can't be changed without altering class features, IMO.

Long rests work as is, but require more time (I haven't decided how long... 20 to 40 hours, probably). Additionally, in order to take a long rest, characters require a hospitable environment and abundant stores: quality food; ample drink; clean, dry, and warm shelter and bedding; safety from attack, etc. Generally speaking, characters require access to the comforts of an inn or tavern which can support at least Modest lifestyle to long rest. Trail rations and a bedroll will not serve. The exception to this rule is that a character living in their own or a party member’s well-established residence (e.g., a cabin they grew up in, a room in a boarding house they’ve owned for several months, a hideout they’ve carefully stocked and spent weeks living in, etc.) can always long rest regardless of lifestyle expenses. The food and drink from a heroes’ feast or Mordenkainen’s magnificant mansion are sufficient to meet the requirements of food and drink, but goodberry and create food and water are not. The environment of a Mordenkainen’s magnificant mansion is sufficient to meet the requirements for safety, warmth, cleanliness, and comfort, but Leomund’s tiny hut and rope trick are not. Further, any location which the DM determines is suitable for extended downtime is automatically suitable for a long rest. The intent is that characters should be in a friendly settlement in order to long rest, though high level or well-prepared characters may find alternatives.

Medium rests take 8 hours, are limited to once per day, and have similar activity restrictions like core long rests. At the end of a medium rest you regain all HP, recover any abilities you would recover after a short rest, and then you regain two Hit Dice. You may also spend one or more Hit Die, removing one effect or status normally cured at the end of a Long Rest for each Hit Die spent (e.g., exhaustion, hit point maximum reduction). Next, you may spend one or more Hit Die to recover an ability you normally recover at the end of a long rest. Thus, a Barbarian could spend a Hit Die to recover all uses of Rage, or a Druid could recover all uses of Wild Shape. You cannot recover the same ability more than once in this way.

If you choose to recover Spellcasting, you only recover a limited number of spell slots. For Bards, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers, and Wizards, the spell slots can have a combined level that is equal to or less than half your class level (rounded up), and none of the slots can be 6th level or higher. For Paladins and Rangers, the spell slots can have a combined level that is equal to or less than a quarter of your class level (rounded up). For Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters, the spell slots can have a combined level that is equal to or less than a sixth of your class level (rounded up), and none of the slots can be 6th level or higher. You cannot spend more than one Hit Die to recover Spellcasting more than once, but a Wizard could spend a Hit Die to recover Spellcasting, and another Hit Die to recover Arcane Recovery.

There are other minor adjustments to make. For example, Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion should always have a duration equal or longer than a long rest because it's a 7th level spell and all it does is provide a way to long rest. In general, I'm happy with the basic design. Spellcasting recovery is a bit wonky, particularly with Multiclassing, and I'm considering changing it to just recover one spell slot of each spell level you have up to 5th level just to make it simpler.
 

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I find it abhorrent that XGtE has encounters based on party level, not monster rarity. I mean, do random encounters and such become more dangerous simply because the characters are higher level? Is the world just becoming more and more dangerous? Did those threats not exist before?

Of course they do, it’s just that the outcome is certain. The PCs will crush them. Or if the monster is too high level it will crush the PCs.

The tables are so you can dial up encounters whose outcome is theoretically uncertain, i.e. the PCs might lose. As you get to know your players of course you can tweak the knobs a bit to ensure you present the desired challenge.

Now an encounter with a low level enemy doesn’t necessarily have to result in combat. If the enemy is smart they’ll try and get out alive, but to go through the motions of entering an actual D&D combat when the outcome is a foregone conclusion? What’s fun in that? Just narrate it and move on.

Uncertainty is where the fun lies IMHO.
 

Main reason sleeping shouldn't be part of a long rest is this: How often do you wake up feeling like you've had a long rest? For me it seems few and far between nowadays.
 

My healing version (condensed)

Breather: 5 min. Heal for 1 HD
Short Rest: 1 hour. Heal for 1 + Con mod HD (min 1). During which you do nothing more strenuous than light activity like eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds.
Long Rest: at least 8 hours long, during which you sleep or perform light activity At the end of a long rest, your hit points remain unchanged. However, you regain up to half of your total number of Hit Dice, rounded down. Any Hit Dice above the maximum amount for your level must be spent during the long rest for recovery
Full Rest: at least 24 hours long, during which you sleep, perform light activity, or non strenuous physical or mental labor for up to 2 hours. A full rest cannot be attempted while in the wilderness, while sleeping on dirt or stone, or while wearing armor. You must be in a safe location where you do not feel the need to keep watch or constantly be on guard. At the end of a full rest, you recover all lost hit points and regain all spent Hit Dice.
 

Consider the ki points of a Monk or the Warlock's spell slots compared to the spell slots of a Paladin who wants to divine smite. The paladin's slots are much more valuable because you are making them even rarer when you require a longer long rest. Meanwhile, the Monk and Warlock and Battle Master and other short-resters are sitting pretty with most if not all their stuff back.

I have a 5th level monk in the party now and i've never seen her run out of Ki points, they get a short rest in and poof, they're all back.
 

I have a 5th level monk in the party now and i've never seen her run out of Ki points, they get a short rest in and poof, they're all back.
I think you missed my point. That is exactly what I am talking about. By making long rests take a longer time, casters and classes such as the paladin who rely on slots for divine smite are getting nerfed.

Otherwise, it depends on how often you get to take a short rest and the setting you are in. IMO, all features should be round-depending or work on a recharge system like breath weapons, etc.

Monks, for instance, could be written so they have 1 KI point at the start of their turn. If they don't spend it, they can stockpile a number of KI points equal to their proficiency bonus. Yeah, they would get a lot more, but enough people complain about running out before they can get in a short rest I think it would be a good thing.
 

I used to have this issue, then we ran Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan. Oddest thing! The players are now very strategic with their resources!

It was actually pretty epic. They entered so confident. After the fourth encounter, they would skip anything they could and were trying desperately to live. It was a good time.
 

I think you missed my point. That is exactly what I am talking about. By making long rests take a longer time, casters and classes such as the paladin who rely on slots for divine smite are getting nerfed.

Otherwise, it depends on how often you get to take a short rest and the setting you are in. IMO, all features should be round-depending or work on a recharge system like breath weapons, etc.

Monks, for instance, could be written so they have 1 KI point at the start of their turn. If they don't spend it, they can stockpile a number of KI points equal to their proficiency bonus. Yeah, they would get a lot more, but enough people complain about running out before they can get in a short rest I think it would be a good thing.
The length of the rest makes no difference. The amount of encounters (and to some degree their strength relative to the amount) is what makes the difference. Downtime is an illusion anyway. You could state that a long rest is now a year of game time. It wouldn't make any difference to balance at all so long as you structured the game in such a way that the group could easily fit in a year of downtime, in between 6-8 encounters.

You're only nerfing casters if your rest schedule means that the casters are regularly facing 8+ encounters before a long rest. Conversely, if you're only getting 2 encounters in between a long rest you're nerfing short rest classes.
 

You're only nerfing casters if your rest schedule means that the casters are regularly facing 8+ encounters before a long rest. Conversely, if you're only getting 2 encounters in between a long rest you're nerfing short rest classes.

Which is what the OP was talking about. When traveling, the frequent long rests, the casters seemed to outshine the others, but in dungeons, etc. when long rests were harder to come by, it seemed more balanced. And now the OP wants to extend the long rest to 36 hours, which with all other things consistent will nerf them, which is also why the OP said the caster players were complaining.

As far as the actual time, otherwise, yeah I agree it doesn't matter. Which is why I've posted the "adventuring day" is really just the time between long rests and has nothing to do with actual time.
 

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