Why so anti-Palladium

[TheAuldGrump]

Anyway, it was this blurb in the introduction (?) to Central Casting: Heroes Now which stated that the Central Casting books were going to be the 'op-ed' of gaming. Then it went into some brief political discussion of the sort no-one wants to get into here. The only changes in the gaming section of the book were some rather choice turns of phrase. Otherwise it was 99% the same as the other CC books at that point. I still use it from time to time to jumpstart ideas on modern characters; the job lists are great for things like that. I have the book somewhere around and could dig it up if anyone wants the exact quotes and stuff; you can PM me or take it to email.

I know that there were at least a couple more books in the series but I don't think they dealt specifically with characters, nor if Jaquays was involved in them or not.

Anyway, said choice phrasing was enough to put me off any further purchases of the line or Task Force Games, when they still existed.

Yep, I thought that that was what you were talking about - it was in a box inside of the introduction, and really, really, had no point being mentioned at all. Paul Jaquays claims credit for that blurb all by his little lonesome, the box has his name and the date he wrote it at the bottom. It was totally unnecessary. It didn't need to be there, and did not even have anything to do with the book.

It was too bad, the supplement is otherwise pretty darned neat, but it was the last thing of his that I will ever buy.

As to why Palladium is so high in the ratings - like with the old TSR AD&D there are people who buy everything Rifts. They will grab everything on the shelves, some will have multiple printings of the same book - for reasons that completely escape me.

The GURPS fanatics on the other hand never seem to buy anything until it goes on the 50% rack, then wonder why the store doesn't get in more GURPS.

Ah gamers, if we weren't so cute people would kill us.

The Auld Grump

 

[Krieg]

Where's C J Carella?

If you read the linked thread above you'll get a pretty good idea of where CJ stands regarding Palladium these days.

 

[Karl Green]

While I don't hate Palladium, I really don't like any of the games very much...as others have said, some good ideas but terrible rules. I hate that they reprint so much stuff in every game...Fantasy - here are the Personality Disorder/Insanity tables. Rifts - here it is again. etc and the same basic weapon tables over and over again. Fantasy stuff here are all the medieval weapons. Heroes Unlimited, here they are again (with modern weapons added on). Beyond Supernatural, here they are again (with backpack laser/practical weapons ;p)

Another thing that bugs me is reading KS letters and stuff you get the idea that EVERTYTHING he does is original, great, and perfect. It all the other guys who 'just don't get it'. Like he invented universal gaming and supernatural horror rpg, or the original d20 system??? What? Maryanne, his ex-wife, LOVES to say over and over again "why eat hamburger when you can eat prime rib every night" to the idea that their system is perfect in every way.

Also many (NOT ALL) of the fans tend to react hastily to any attack on their system. They (and Maryanne) have really REALLY turned me off all their games (note this occasionally happens with some few hardcore HERO fans, who get all hot and bothered when you don't 'get their game').

 

[Nuclear Platypus]

Oddly enough of all the games to get me started in RPGs, it was Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Other Strangeness. Maybe it was the simple pleasure of making a lil mouse into an 800 lb monstrosity if I chose to. Heck, back in HS, a friend and I considered making a wrasslin' league filled with mutant animals like a turtle tagteam very similar to the Sumo Brothers in Super Mario 3. Ooo. And when Transdimensional TMNT came out, here come da mutant dinos! Heh. I remember a one shot that had a pair of dinos (a stego and a tri-tops) with magic weapons (hammer and sword but no "spear and magic helmet" IIRC ) laying some smack down on the bad guys.

But then came the corruption of that 'pure' game by RIFTS (Mutants in Space). A second edition of TMNT was promised (with a Simon Bisely cover) but it fell through when the license ran out. However the material was apparently recycled into that psuedo second edition TMNT, After The Bomb (previously an alternate setting).

As for rabid fans, they're everywhere. Haven't encountered any diehard HERO fans but my encounters with White Wolf wannabe Goths irked the 'ell out of me ("there's more RP opportunities than in D&D" for example) while I also remember an 'S. Jaros' (back on rec.games.frp.dnd) who insisted the 2E worlds weren't ADD even though the met his 'criteria' and his 'proliferation of ADD' threads was worse than TSR's problem.

 

[trancejeremy]

At any rate, I read the intro to Beyond the Supernatural on gamingreport.com and Siembieda tried to make it sound like BTS was the first roleplaying game of its kind when Chill predates it by one year (1987) and of course the venerable Call of Cthulhu predates it by seven years (1981).

Bureau 13 also came out in 1981.

 

[nimisgod]

Herpes Unlimited, here they are again (with modern weapons added on).

Herpes Unlimited?! Damn! Palladium really knows how to market to kids!

 

[mythago]

Rifts? Gosh, you kids.

Back in the day, it was the brand-new AD&D, Runequest if you could get your hands on a copy, or Palladium. After the Four Basic Food Groups and no parry and no skill checks, it was amazing to be able to do something different. And workable. Ego? No offense, people, but did you know Gary Gygax back then?

Of course, we did have to walk five miles in the snow uphill to the gaming store.

 

[Pozatronic]

Yeah, Rifts.

We didn't realize how unbalanced it was until we started playing Cyberpunk 2020 where, buy golly, your character can actually die with one hit!

Still, as much as the rules were awful, we had fun. My first character was an Operator (mechanic) with some psi-powers. It wasn't so bad because the other PC's were a Wilderness Scout and an ex dog-boy. Not to imbalanced, right?

Next campaing: I played a Rogue Scholar, after getting talked out of playing a Vagabond.
The other players? A Dragon , a Glitter Boy, a Juicer, and something from the Conversion Book...some sort of Lizard Man type creature that could create Artifacts. Yes, Artifacts. It didn't last very long.

One thing that always bothered me about any Palladium rule books were all the damn exclamation points !!!! Does anybody know what I'm talking about here?

 

[Keeper of Secrets]

Considering that it came out about the same time as AD&D v.1, Palladium was pretty advanced in many ways.
I especially liked the way you were not just a "fighter" or "wizard" but a character with a profession and skills that were actually useful.

The main problem with it was that it didn't evolve like D&D did, so it looks VERY dated now.

Also, non-spellcasters didn't really get as much power as their levels increased, I mean, +1 to hit and a few percent to your skills versus 2 spells of your level.

Overall, very enjoyable but its time has very much passed.

I think this sums up my feelings quite nicely. They just never evolved into anything that made you think they were actively interested in updating the system. Then again, I guess if they are under the impression that the system is already perfect . . .

 

[Jim Hague]

As far as Kevin goes, this sums it up nicely:

Kevin S. has even said as much, and he has said a few years ago when d20 was first out and people started converting Rifts to d20 that he would never cater to a company he doesn't like, and never convert any of his products to d20 because, in his mind, he would be catering to the enemy.

I have serious doubts about Palladium's alleged market share - I've been in nearly every game store in Texas, and the Palladium Publishing books simply don't move.