Why the fear and hatred of Disjunction?

[Crothian]

Raise Dead and the Resurrection spells solve this for a lesser overall cost than having to replace several valuable items at the high levels. Weird, yes, but it's how D&D works. Death is not worse than item loss for a high level D&D character.

What stops high level characters from going on an adventure to get more treasure though? Sure, they might be a little weaker but it is not like if the party is 18th level that all dungeos nare now 18th level dungeons. They can easily go into one for 15th level characters or whatever and just get more treasure. Getting treasure in D&D is not a hard thing.

 

[Quartz]

Raise Dead and the Resurrection spells solve this for a lesser overall cost than having to replace several valuable items at the high levels. Weird, yes, but it's how D&D works. Death is not worse than item loss for a high level D&D character.

I disagree. The problem with death is that someone else has to recover you. This is not always possible. That is far worse than losing some of your items.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I disagree. The problem with death is that someone else has to recover you. This is not always possible. That is far worse than losing some of your items.

Shrink Item handles that rather nicely.

 

[Nail]

What stops high level characters from going on an adventure to get more treasure though?

The Plot, usually.

Sure, they might be a little weaker but it is not like if the party is 18th level that all dungeos nare now 18th level dungeons. They can easily go into one for 15th level characters or whatever and just get more treasure.

Dungeons have signs on them, proclaiming their level?

 

[Crothian]

The Plot, usually.

Unless the plot is forced on the characters, they should be able to do what they want.

Dungeons have signs on them, proclaiming their level?

No, but a little investigation and research should turn up something that the players would find easy.

 

[Seeten]

Unless the plot is forced on the characters, they should be able to do what they want.



No, but a little investigation and research should turn up something that the players would find easy.

Uh, if someone just disjoined me and destroyed my gear and whatever, I am fairly sure going to a level 14 place and ganking some lowbie for his loot would be low on my priority list.

You know, if we played it like it'd happen in reality, I'd have 19 treasure stashes all over, and by level 18 as a Fighter, I'd rule a kingdom. Pay the court magician to remagic alot of gear, and this time, bring a magic item with AMF to throw on the archmage. I am so sick of uppity Archmages anyway.

Ok, usually I play the archmage. And normally, I play an archmage with creation feats. Or Clerics. You know why?

Relying on other people to balance the world never works. heh.

 

[Imagicka]

Greetings...

I agree. A DM who uses this spell is just being a total sadistic ass, just like the guy who designed the spell in the first place.

Even Wish is not this powerful (Wish is more versatile, but not this powerful). At worse, Disjunction should be a very high level Epic spell. At best, it should not exist in the game system. The spell is merely designed to hack off players.

Just because a given spell concept can be thought of does not mean that it should exist in the game system.

Yes! And while we're at it, let's remove anything from the game where it's a save-or-die effect. Because that's just being cruel too. Hey, and any offensive spell. Because we know what lots of people are going to be hurt and upset that their character is going to lose hitpoints! Oh, and don't forget the weapons. Let's nerf all the weapons... literally! Let's make all the weapons do subdual damage because they are covered in foam.

 

[Elemental]

What stops high level characters from going on an adventure to get more treasure though? Sure, they might be a little weaker but it is not like if the party is 18th level that all dungeos nare now 18th level dungeons. They can easily go into one for 15th level characters or whatever and just get more treasure. Getting treasure in D&D is not a hard thing.

Quite a few things are problematic there:

What other level 9 spell requires multiple sessions to be devoted to reversing it's effects?

As said already, since when do dungeons have signs of them indicating their level?

It pretty much kills suspension of disbelief.

It might not be possible. The Evil Overlord is destroying the world in two days, we're on the clock!

I disagree. The problem with death is that someone else has to recover you. This is not always possible. That is far worse than losing some of your items.

Eh, just leave some hair, a pint of blood or fingernail clippings in a safe place before doing anything dangerous.

Greetings...

Yes! And while we're at it, let's remove anything from the game where it's a save-or-die effect. Because that's just being cruel too. Hey, and any offensive spell. Because we know what lots of people are going to be hurt and upset that their character is going to lose hitpoints! Oh, and don't forget the weapons. Let's nerf all the weapons... literally! Let's make all the weapons do subdual damage because they are covered in foam.

The problems with Disjunction are twofold:

There's no defence against it, except counterspelling or somehow blocking the line of effect immediately when the casting begins, both of which are tough at best. And no, I don't think a level 17+ caster having to spend the whole fight constantly readying to counterspell a Disjunction makes the spell balanced.

Destroyed equipment cannot be recovered. At the levels where a Disjunction is liable to be cast, True Resurrection means death is merely a hit to the party finances. It would arguably be balanced if the items were temporarily dispelled, but permanent loss will affect players much more than NPC's and is just obnoxious.

 

[Nadaka]

Meh. I just changed MDJ, it essentially acts as a chained greater dispell with no Caster Level cap or it can be used to target a single item with the standard disjoin effect. This way no one is completely screwed over with permenantly loosing all thier items.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Look, easy answer folks: Wish.
Allow a Wish spell - a SINGLE Wish spell - to recover all the items lost to a Mage's Disjunction - a SINGLE Mage's Disjunction. 9th level spell used to counteract a 9th level spell.