D&D General Why the resistance to D&D being a game?

[Micah Sweet]

Ever try RiFTs??

I have. Fun game, if a little heavy on the player side.

 

[Micah Sweet]

By hitting AC 12 and dealing 26 points of damage.

With what? Aren't bare-handed attacks non-lethal unless you're a monk?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm not sure this is a particularly apt summation. I think it's more like..

a lot...
a lot...
a whole heckuva lot.....

of things in the game strain credulity..

such that credulity may rather be the problem than the offending game elements.

I simply don't agree. Give me something that has nothing to do with hit points.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm simply pointing out that, by the mooted standards of you and @Oofta, that's a supernatural ability.

Again, "but hit points!" Is  always the attack vector here.

 

[Gimby]

With what? Aren't bare-handed attacks nonetheless unless you're a monk?

Nope

"Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head--butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons). On a hit, an unarmed strike deals bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your modifier. You are proficient with your unarmed strikes."

Plus you can take a fighting style at level 1 to make that D6 + modifier

 

[Gammadoodler]

Not entirely true; its just assumed to trail off in availability outside of areas that level appropriate. But then, those are also the places that have monsters up to the challenge of the PCs. Once you're going to deal with the idea of "appropriate challenges", one isn't that much odder than the other. At least you don't have the Starfinder thing of a PC having to be of a particular level to use a particular piece of equipment; it'll just likely be hard for them to find them.



Well, honestly, gamist mechanics often do give players more agency; whether or not they match up with the fiction is a separate question.

I find most of the "level appropriate" mechanics pretty odd and hard to coherently justify.

Unlike most of the other mechanics, they impact setting parameters in service to game balance rather than provide mechanics for impacting the setting.

So I have a hard time reckoning how they make sense. Not that I don't try.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I simply don't agree. Give me something that has nothing to do with hit points.

And the existence of magic and mythical creatures, and civilizations made of 1000 year old humanoids, and physically accessible deities, planes of existence navigable through the power of thought, etc.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Nope

"Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head--butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons). On a hit, an unarmed strike deals bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your modifier. You are proficient with your unarmed strikes."

Plus you can take a fighting style at level 1 to make that D6 + modifier

Ah. Well, that works out anyway. I don't see beating a lion bare-handed as supernatural. Very, very impressive, but if you're a good enough fighter I can see it.

 

[pemerton]

How does a D&D fighter kill a lion bare-handed?

You've had some replies. At 5th level, a 5e D&D fighter gets two attacks per round, With 18 STR (not unreasonable, given the 4th level ability increase) that is +7 to hit for 5 points of damage per hit. Versus AC 12, that is a 5 required to hit, so the expected damage per attack is 4, so the expected damage per round is 8. That's three to four rounds to kill the lion (depending on the luck of the attack rolls and the use, or non-use, of Action Surge).

(I'm not factoring in any Battlemaster manoeuvres. Nor critical hits. Nor fighting styles.)

Suppose the fighter has DEX 12 and is unarmoured, and hence AC 11. The lion attacks with +5 to hit for either 7 (bite) or 6 (claw) damage. The lion will need a 6 to hit, so expected damage is about 5 per round.

A 5th level fighter has 34 hit points before CON bonuses, which are probably at least +5 hp, and so can stand up to the lion for 8 or so rounds (depending on the luck of the attack rolls and the use, or non-use, of Second Wind).

There are further variables, like whether or not the lion gets to Pounce, but I think that fighter can take that lion without too much prospect of dying. If the fighter has Action Surge and Second Wind available, I reckon they have a good chance to take down two lions barehanded even though the lions will have the benefit of Pack Tactics (raising their expected damage to around 6 per round) while both are still alive.

 

[Micah Sweet]

And the existence of magic and mythical creatures, and civilizations made of 1000 year old humanoids, and physically accessible deities, planes of existence navigable through the power of thought, etc.

All of that is supernatural. Please try again.