Why there's crafting in WOW and not in D&D

[Ravellion]

I have never played WoW, but from what I gather, grinding for materials is a rather solitary experience.

In D&D, there's usually around four people at the table. As much as it is annoying for the rest of the group if one player grabs the spotlight by being an actual thief, robbing houses and merchants and all that, any amount of interesting (ie. more than a roll or two) crafting will get the others players bored quick.

For me: Bye crafting rules, and good riddance.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Yes, but Item Creation is so incredibly simple and streamlined in 4e that I assumed we were talking about craft skills. Or verismilitude. Or something.

I might have to take another look at the rules then. Are there crafting rules for making magic items that does not require the "poop" of other items? If not then how were the first items made?

 

[Deset Gled]

4E IS NOT A VIDEO GAME!!! I four won dont understand how people can think this one is played on the computer and the other played at the table!!!

The OP absolutely understands the difference. As a matter of fact, he is discussing the differences between the two. Specifically, why the computer game has something better than the table game does, when it seems that it it should be easier (logically and historically) to do it in the table game.

I four won dont understand why discussing two different interactive, level based, combat oriented fantasy games at the same time is so much of a afront to you.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Yes, but WoW crafting generally concerns itself with items that are useful at roughly your level of play.

D&D Craft Skills tend to be about mighty heroes who can make iron pots and 1st-level armor.

So alter crafting to better show this. Fix it by fixing it, don't fix it by neutering it.

 

[Wormwood]

I might have to take another look at the rules then. Are there crafting rules for making magic items that does not require the "poop" of other items? If not then how were the first items made?

Enchant Magic Item: You touch a normal item and turn it into a magic item of your level or lower. The ritual’s component cost is equal to the price of the magic item you create.

That's it. Period.

If you want to use residuum in your game, then you just apply it toward the ritual's cost. But that's completely optional.

 

[Wormwood]

So alter crafting to better show this. Fix it by fixing it, don't fix it by neutering it.

They did fix it. You can easily make any magic item appropriate to your level---without blowing experience points or investing in a ton of feats.

What they jettisonned was a fairly useless skill and its related subsystem that added precisely zip to the vast majority of D&D games.

 

[Nymrohd]

Technically the components of a ritual can be a lot of things. The alchemical reagents required in Arcana rituals can certainly be things included in treasure parcels. A creative DM can trade gold, art, or even magic items from a treasure parcel for an equivalent ammount of ritual components. Certainly residuum is quick and easy, but if you are killing a creature anyway, you might as well harvest the parts of it that are useful and add them to treasure. Especially in a low magic campaign, I'd disqualify residuum altogether, and would require that players track down some power components for certain of the more powerful items, since said components simply would never be in stock. Even in the normally high magic campaigns of 4E I doubt that you would easily be able to find the power components of 30th level items anywhere outside Sigil or the City of Brass, and even there you might well have to wait a long while till they'd be available.
In short if you want to complicate and elaborate on crafting, it is dead easy to do so.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I four won dont understand how people can think this one is played on the computer and the other played at the table!!!

 

[ExploderWizard]

They did fix it. You can easily make any magic item appropriate to your level---without blowing experience points or investing in a ton of feats.

What they jettisonned was a fairly useless skill and its related subsystem that added precisely zip to the vast majority of D&D games.

Craft skills can be easily added back in no problem. The skill system itself with no degrees of expertise beyond trained/untrained is a bit coarse. Specializing in some skills at the expense of others was a customization tool that many miss.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Honestly, to me, a bigger issue in D&D is that the game never had drinking rules, despite the cliche of everyone spending every waking moment in taverns, like well-armed extras from Cheers.

Warhammer and even The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) have this covered. Maybe the Disease Track in 4E could be abused to re-create that...

Now that I think about - most definitely it can be used - 4E even has a skill covering it now, and it's Endurance!



Unless I invent a Craft system for 4E or WotC creates one, I think I will use the existing "Knowledge" Skills, specifically History (default for most crafts), Dungeoneering (mining, traps) and Nature (anything with animal handling, some traps). I probably won't invent a 1:1 table for all possible Crafts and allow a Craft to fall under multiple skills.