Why we love D&D but hate d20

[Blue Sky]

Sorry Jezter, but that is patently wrong!


It is:
My hat of d02 know no limit

The emphasis is, of course, on the {pic deleted}

Heh, am I the only one wondering what the cute blonde has to do with d02?

 

[Minicol]

D&D is big swords and big spells, it is hit points being sloughed off in waves by fire, acid and lightning.........

I used to know people who scorned AD&D; now I see them happily playing d20. Do they know they're playing AD&D 3rd Edition?

I know a lot of people who used to spat on AD&D, who now play D&D / D20 with no problem. I think the reason is that now people can easily understand the basics of the system, which was everything but clear previously.

 

[Acid_crash]

I know a lot of people who used to spat on AD&D, who now play D&D / D20 with no problem. I think the reason is that now people can easily understand the basics of the system, which was everything but clear previously.

This I agree with...I play 3.5e over 2e and 1e and Original e is because 3.5e does not have THAC0.

As for the other games like Star Wars d20 and so forth...I can see how a person can play that game and feel like they are playing D&D...I'm in a SW game right now and it totally feels like I'm playing D&D with blaster pistols instead of feeling like I'm in a Star Wars story. I'm not missing the point of SW, it's in how the gamemaster is running it...he's so used to playing/running D&D that he can't break away from that mentality. It's a shame, cuz he's not that bad a GM.

 

[Danzauker]

My take:

I NEVER liked AD&D really. I always favored OD&D decause I felt the advanced version was too clumsy and full of exceptions and conflicting things and... weel you know.

Sure I played it, but whenever I got some source material that I liked I tried to stuff it in the OD&D rules.

That until D&D 3e. d20 IMHO is an excellent system. Far superior to its predecessors.

And like many other already said d20 IS a generalist system. Not universal. No one is. But it's fantastic in it's niche.

Which is fast, cinematic, combat based RPG. Pretty large niche isn't it?

Of course D&D is a specialization of d20, although the "original" one. But stuff in Unearthed Arcana and d20 Modern (which is IMHO the best incarnation of the d20 framework to date. It's the closest thing to a classless system that you can achieve with d20 without ditching classe altogether) and you can have nearly anything you want.

d20 Star Wars? Very good. After all, SW IS fantasy more than sci-fi.

d20 Modern? I already said, is excellent.

d20 for superhero typo games? Weel surely you can fit it.

d20 Cthulhu? Well that doesn't work much. But Lovecraft is everything but cinematic. If you want a X-Files styled game with Mythos feeling, though, d20 Chtulhu works nearly flawlessly (although d20 Modern with sanity and magic from Chtulhu is still better).

Recap? d20 is great. Unless you try to stuff it where it's not intended to fit.

 

[PCD]

It's all about choice. YMMV...

 

[Calico_Jack73]

D&D is big swords and big spells, it is hit points being sloughed off in waves by fire, acid and lightning. It is not a system that lends itself well to science fiction, nor is it a generic system -- only worlds built on the system can truly benefit (ie. Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Unearthed Arcana).

Have you even played Traveller T20? The combat damage system was revised to make it deadly for all characters no matter what level they are and I'm not talking about a VP/WP system. Instead it uses the Lifeblood system and pretty much every lethal shot that hits you WILL take at least one point of Lifeblood and numerous hit points unless you have REALLY good armor. Armor reduces the damage dice pool by one dice per armor point up to the last dice and then reduces the damage rolled on the last dice by the ammount left over. Let's say you got shot with a weapon that does 3d10 damage and you are wearing armor that gives you 4 AC. The lowest 2 dice rolled are ignored leaving you with 2 armor points left and the last dice rolled was an 8. You just took 6 points of Lifeblood damage which is equal to your CON. Unless you have an incredible superhuman CON it won't take all that many hits to take you down. If you lose your HP first, you are unconscious. If you lose your Lifeblood you are dead.
Traveller is the d20 game that I've found to be the most unlike D&D. Character creation, and combat are almost completely new. It might as well be a whole new game.

 

[diaglo]

Original D&D(1974) is the only true game. All the other editions are just poor imitations of the real thing.



my hat of d02 know no limit.... 2oo

 

[d4]

Traveller is the d20 game that I've found to be the most unlike D&D. Character creation, and combat are almost completely new. It might as well be a whole new game.

if you want to see really different, take a look at Mutants & Masterminds. no classes -- character creation is point-based. no hit points -- injuries are determined by a damage saving throw. no experience -- characters simply earn more power points, which are the basic building blocks of the point-based system. Attack bonus, Defense bonus, saving throws, feats, and skill points are decoupled from levels. (your level still determines what your maximum can be in those areas, but you don't get them automatically. want to be a 10th-level character with a +0 BAB? no problem. want to be a 5th-level character with twenty feats? no problem.) a comprehensive system for creating any power you can imagine. M&M is IMO one of the most innovative d20 systems on the market and really shows just how far you can push the engine.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

if you want to see really different, take a look at Mutants & Masterminds.

Sounds cool. If I want to play a Super Hero game I'll check it out. I just wish that Marvel & DC would grant a license to the better systems to write up sourcebooks on their worlds for other games rather than publish their own less than stellar RPG systems. I liked Champions and Gurps:Supers but if you wanted to run it in the Marvel Universe it was up to the GM to arbitrarily recreate the existing heros. Still, I played in an awesome X-Men campaign using Champions many years ago and remember it fondly.

I like Traveller (and sounds like I'd like M&M) because the focus on the game isn't gaining XP and leveling up. In Traveller you most often start around 8th level unless you want to play a younger character who hasn't seen that many terms. Because you can make the character you want right off the bat the story rather than character advancement takes center stage.

 

[3catcircus]

This assumes that the unique system is better at capturing the source material than a modified d20. That's a pretty big assumption. IME, the biggest thing that gets in the way of a system and a setting is player/DM lack of familiarity. A group fumbling around with unfamiliar rules will be awkward regardless of how closely it supposedly ties with the source material.

I'm curious why you think Conan won't work with d20 as it was one of the early influences on the game.

Aaron (responding to the obvious troll)

Hmm - I kinda wonder about your argument regarding rules familiarty - why doesn't this argument apply for d20? If you are playing rpg's for the first time, then d20 would be just as unfamiliar as any other system out there. Sorry, your argument doesn't wash.