Why won't you switch?

[Kzach]

Apologies if this has been asked before but I did try and find a similar thread and couldn't. If it has, then feel free to ignore it

Another thread in which 4E non-adopters were asked why they still perused this forum interested me and brought up the question of why people won't be adopting the new edition.

I get that these reasons have probably been stated in numerous threads, but no single thread collated them all.

Given that I'm essentially asking non-adopters of the new edition why they're not interested in it, I'm going to ask ahead of time that everyone keep it civil. There is no intention of sparking fires here, just genuine curiosity.

For me, I'm going to be picking up the new edition sight unseen with a pre-order. All the previews have given me significant confidence in the ability of the designers and almost everything I've heard thus far about the changes are positive in my mind.

From my perspective, there are a lot of intelligent and creative people putting a lot of thought and effort behind making the new system as fun as possible. The fact that they're actually examining each rule to determine what it brings to the game, positive or negative, and are remaking these rules to either be more fun or easier to use is fantastic in my mind.

It seems that there are a vast majority of people who have very similar ideas on what makes a good system and what they dislike about 3.x. And 4E seems to be catering to that by fixing everything most people seem to dislike and making it into what most people think is a good system.

So, with that said, and admittedly I think I'm turning into a fanboi due to my excitement and anticipation of the new edition, I find it puzzling why anyone would not want to switch.

Therefore I bring this question to you: why won't you switch?

 

[pawsplay]

Apologies if this has been asked before but I did try and find a similar thread and couldn't.

Dig a little more. Mostly, these threads have died out because they're repetitive and full of bile.

 

[Delta]

Details for me are posted on my blog. Main topics:

(1) Continuity of rules
(2) Digital initiative
(3) Promise of OGL

http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/2007/10/probably-no-4e-for-me.html

 

[maggot]

Basically, the new approaches, setting, races, etc. don't appeal to me.

The new edition feels too much like a whole new game: new rules, new setting, new races, new monsters, new characters. I'm not looking for a whole new game. I might be looking for tweaks to the existing game, but I'm not after a whole new one.

(Aside: That's why I'm excited about Monte's house rules. I would also have been excited about a less comprehensive overall of the D&D experience.)

I've invested time and money in 3.E that won't be easily repeated. I've developed an ease with 3.E that comes from years of experience running it.

Switching to 3E was compelling because 2E was so bad I had given up D&D and fantasy RPGs in general. But for 4E, there is no compelling reason to switch for me at all. In fact, the time and money investment makes choosing 4E less than compelling. The fact that I don't care for the 4E direction makes it an easy call.

 

[PoeticJustice]

I don't know if this topic has been the object of a thread, but it has been broached. Just as in the 'why are you still here' thread, I think we can all be civil and not let this one degenerate. The key to this preservation will lie in posters' willingness to not criticize the reasons given.

I am not switching because:

1) Learning a new ruleset is a pain in the butt, first and foremost.

2) Switching is cost prohibitive in that I would lose both money and players.

3) I have seen little that cannot be 'cribbed' into 3.5 with a minimum of effort on my part. In fact, the mental exercise in conversion may well prove more intellectually satisfying than playing it as written.

4) I am entering a period of my life where I would rather invest in good board games than good role playing games.

5) I am naturally contrarian and will enjoy leaving the "mainstream" of this hobby.

6) If gnomes aren't cool enough for 4E PHB, I'm not either.

7) Based on what I have read and seen, I do not believe that my DM'ing style is suited for the 4E rules, though I admit this is a weak reason because I haven't seen the entirety of the system yet.

8) I just subscribed to d20srd.org and haven't gotten a chance to use my coupon for a free rez. Not going to leave that money on the table.

9) In 5 years, I have bought a lot of stuff. I still have too much fun left to wring out of 3.5 before I could seriously think about switching.

10) Even then, I would be more apt to buy and play GURPS, particularly if the Studio Foglio's Girl Genius book EVER COMES OUT.

I actually have a lot more reasons than this (and a lot more reasons than I initially thought I had). I think this sums it up and would justify my position to any right-thinking member of this forum.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

1) General opposition to edition churn in my hobbies
2) Specific objections to 4E

1) I don't enjoy playing a game thinking "What rules changes would make this game better?" I don't play softball that way. I don't play Scrabble that way. I want RPGing to be a hobby like those, where I can pick them up after 10 years and play them basically like I always did. I have two D&D systems that I love and that are good enough to provide me with gaming enjoyment for the rest of my life. Getting back into that gearhead mindset of "what mechanical changes would make this RPG better" would leave me in a state of perpetual discontent. Fun comes from a great gaming group and a great adventure and a "good enough" ruleset. And if there is a really glaring problem, I'll be glad to house-rule it.

I'm hopping off the edition treadmill, for good I think. 4E would be for me if neither 3.5 nor any previous edition was "good enough" and if it looked promising.

2) I don't like most of the specific changes that 4E is making. They're eliminating elements of D&D that I really like, leaving in the worst 3E innovations, and adding some new stuff that's just silly. The designers comments about what they view as "problems" have been very revealing.

 

[Greylock]

First reason: Dragon Magazine
Second reason: Not enough time has passed.
Third reason: No Gnomes. Maybe no Druids. Tieflings and Dragonborn Warlocks instead.
Fourth reason: I don't like any of the "upgrades" mentioned so far. They haven't addressed what I and many of my friends didn't like in 3.x. Instead, they keep those and ditch the stuff we DID like.
Fifth reason: I'm completely and utterly tired of Feat based systems. Which means, yes, that I am pretty much done with most 3.x OGL derived systems as well. No, please, don't tell me how much "better" Savage Worlds is and why I should be using it. Or True20. Or M&M.
Sixth reason: Money.
Seventh reason: Dungeon Magazine
Eight reason: Digital Initiative.

hth

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

I won't be going to 4e, even though some house ruled mechanics are already very close to 4e.

Reasons:
1.)New edition seems too gamist with elements that break versimilitude
2.)PC/NPC rule divide, I'd had enough of that by the time I quit 2e and I won't start again.
3.)Changes in monster design are not to my taste
4.)Changes in basic magic system I really don't like. I don't mean non-Vancian it's things like no SoD, dumping summoning/ necromancy/ polymorph spells when I never had problems with them.
5.)Could be prejudging the situation but they seem to be giving martial character powers I feel should be strictly magical in nature. I'm willing to accept high-level non-spellcasters doing impossible inhuman things, but not hurling energy attacks.

 

[smootrk]

The posts up to now all cover aspects of my own choice to not upgrade, at least as a DM. In addition to the cost of buying a new round of books, I was really soured by the loss of my beloved periodicals just to fuel WotC's corporate changes.

However, I do plan to purchase a PHB (only) so that when I need a gaming-fix I can go that route when necessary (when no alternatives are present), although it won't be my first choice.

 

[Mamacat]

First and foremost, money. I have a 2 year old, and am planning for another baby next year, so my money is tight. I'd rather spend it on something that's going to be around a while, and I've already invested enough in 3.5 to play it for years.

Second, I'm not currently in a D&D game, so there is no immediate need for new books.

Third, space. I have a LOT of books (I'm a librarian, after all), and a LOT of RPG books. With four of us in a three bedroom house, there's just no room for a whole batch of new books.

Fourth, I really don't like a lot of the rule changes, especially to the Druids and Rangers. And I don't like the changes I'm hearing that are coming for FR as well.

Fifth, I have True 20, and I really, really like that system, and I'd rather invest in a few more books for that system then buy a whole new system.

Sixth, I miss Dragon Magazine.

There's more reasons, but right now, those are the main ones.