Why won't you switch?

[delericho]

New Coke is interesting. In fact, it's ought to be part of the required curricula of study for alot of different disciplines. You can learn alot from it.

I agree with everything in your post. I also wonder how much of the reaction to "New Coke" was a response to it not just being an additional option, but rather a replacement option, removing something dearly loved from the marketplace. I suspect that's one of the great inponderables.

I also wonder how much of my anti-4e reaction is not just "I don't like this rule because X, Y and Z", and how much is down to "they're changing the game I've played for 20 years, and I don't like it". If I'm being completely honest, there is a significant element of that in play... but I never had that reaction to 3e, which had plenty of change from what had gone before, so I'm also certain that that's not the only factor.

 

[Psion]

No, Kung Fu the series is from 1972-1975. The era of 'badly dubbed chinese movie on UHF and Betamax' is more like 1975-1985. Most of the real classics of the genera don't even exist until after the 'Kung Fu' series has concluded its run.

The defining classic of the genre seems to me to be Enter the Dragon, produced in 1973. (Not sure when that was translated and released in the US, but there you go.)

 

[DM_Jeff]

Without much more to add I just wanted to say I enjoyed reading all the responses, many of which echoed thoughts I had but didn't say.

More importantly, my only real fear was that I'd feel alone or that the 3.5 community would vanish, and I no longer feel that way either. Good day.

-DM Jeff

 

[wingsandsword]

I also wonder how much of my anti-4e reaction is not just "I don't like this rule because X, Y and Z", and how much is down to "they're changing the game I've played for 20 years, and I don't like it". If I'm being completely honest, there is a significant element of that in play... but I never had that reaction to 3e, which had plenty of change from what had gone before, so I'm also certain that that's not the only factor.

I didn't mind the big mechanical changes with 3e, but to me that was because they went out of their way to preserve a lot of the flavor that went before. 3e seemed like taking the flavor and style of 1e (especially with it's "back to the dungeon" motto from early on), with flavor elements of 2e too, and putting it on a new engine.

4e is both a big mechanical change, and a big flavor change at the same time. I think they could have done one or the other but changing the flavor in the core and the rules at once seems like an intentional divorce from the heritage of the game. To me, that "D&D heritage" is a whole lot of the game, it's what makes D&D different from Palladium Fantasy or GURPS Fantasy or Fantasy HERO.

 

[Celebrim]

The defining classic of the genre seems to me to be Enter the Dragon, produced in 1973. (Not sure when that was translated and released in the US, but there you go.)

This is purely subjective, and also or disagreement may stem from differing opinions about what is being discussed, but I think the defining classic of the genre of badly dubbed 'Saturday Mantinee on the obscure UHF channel' Kung Fu movies was 'Five Deadly Venoms'. 'Enter the Dragon' is one of those movies that transcends the genre, much like say 'Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon'. EtD is a Hollywood production, not a Chinese movie, and like 'CT,HD' was a bigger success abroad than it was in China. Granted, people might not have been watching badly dubbed versions of 'Fists of Fury' or 'Drunken Boxer' were it not for 'EtD', but its specifically the Saturday/Sunday badly dubbed genera being discussed, and not successful widescreen theatrical releases.

 

[Gallo22]

Too bad this thread can't stay on topic...

As far as, "why won't you switch"???

1.1: 4th Edition is simply not going in the direction "I/we" like or care about. My 1st reason is a personal "taste" decision, plain and simple. There's no science to it, it just is!

1.2: I truely believe quality of the product is 2nd on WotC's priority list. It does not take a genious to figure out that the new marketing plan is solely for selling the most products to make the most money. Hence the 3 or so core books a year stuff. Only time will confirm this...

2: Money. Like many, I have enough D&D3.0/3.5 stuff to last me til the "end".

3.1: I like 3.0/3.5... ALOT!!!, as does my gaming group, so why switch.

3.2: There is alot of really good stuff for 3.0/3.5 still out there that I'd like to use. Just look at all the great stuff on sites like RPGNow, etc...

4: The loss of Dragon and Dungeon magazines. Like many, WotC's decision to pull this from Paizo bothered me. Under Paizo the magazines where the best!!! (IMO)

5: Also, there are alot of other really good games and systems out there that are fun to play and that I want to try. So, I'd rather purchase those items, then another version of D&D.

 

[Ourph]

You know, though, that a few folks simply don't see anything innovative about the 4e previews we've seen so far? And, a few folks see some things being "fixed" that seem to imply that either (1) the designers didn't understand the function of the thing being "fixed" to begin with, or (2) (far more likely) the "fix" is occuring for reasons other than "fixing" things that are broken.

I think I just had a flashback to 1989 and my first impression of 2e. The OGL is to Gary Gygax as Mike Mearls is to Zeb Cook.

My theory is that every even-numbered edition will do this, and every odd-numbered edition will reinvigorate the hobby and rejuvenate the brand by adding back in all the "broken" stuff that got eliminated in the previous incarnation. I expect to see 5e reintroducing 1-2-1-2 diagonal movement, equipment dependence and lots of fiddly per day resource management while it heralds itself as a "return to the roots of D&D". The developers will tell everyone that 4e wasn't fun because it didn't support sandbox style play, introduced too many arbitrary rules in the interest of streamlined play and didn't incorporate enough of an element of system mastery to keep players interest over the long term. Some people who genuflected at the altar of 4e in 2008 will immediately burn 4e at the stake and embrace their new 5e masters. Others will declare their intention to switch to GURPS. Diaglo will continue to lobby Le Rouse to reprint OD&D ca. 1974 rebranded as "The One True Game".

 

[DaveMage]

Without much more to add I just wanted to say I enjoyed reading all the responses, many of which echoed thoughts I had but didn't say.

More importantly, my only real fear was that I'd feel alone or that the 3.5 community would vanish, and I no longer feel that way either. Good day.

-DM Jeff

I'm continually amazed at the amount of people who aren't upgrading. (Or at least, claim not to be - we'll see if they're still playing 3.5 in August.)

 

[Wormwood]

My theory is that every even-numbered edition will do this, and every odd-numbered edition will reinvigorate the hobby and rejuvenate the brand by adding back in all the "broken" stuff that got eliminated in the previous incarnation.

The inverse Trek Movie Rule?

 

[Raven Crowking]

My theory is that every even-numbered edition will do this, and every odd-numbered edition will reinvigorate the hobby and rejuvenate the brand by adding back in all the "broken" stuff that got eliminated in the previous incarnation. I expect to see 5e reintroducing 1-2-1-2 diagonal movement, equipment dependence and lots of fiddly per day resource management while it heralds itself as a "return to the roots of D&D". The developers will tell everyone that 4e wasn't fun because it didn't support sandbox style play, introduced too many arbitrary rules in the interest of streamlined play and didn't incorporate enough of an element of system mastery to keep players interest over the long term. Some people who genuflected at the altar of 4e in 2008 will immediately burn 4e at the stake and embrace their new 5e masters. Others will declare their intention to switch to GURPS. Diaglo will continue to lobby Le Rouse to reprint OD&D ca. 1974 rebranded as "The One True Game".