Why won't you switch?

[Wolfspider]

Mourn! What a pleasant surprise! It's a small world.

What in the world are you doing HERE, though?

I thought you were switching to D&D 4e....

Provide evidence of this claim, or retract it because it's a dishonest statement.

It would probably be more effective if you flashed your badge before giving an order like that. That way people will jump right to it.

 

[The Little Raven]

What in the world are you doing HERE, though?

Correcting misinformation. Having an opinion is fine, as long as it's an informed one. When people spout off things that have been debunked thoroughly (like DDI being necessary), it raises my intellectual ire and I have to correct it.

I thought you were switching to D&D 4e?

Won't know that until May (when I get my copy of Shadowfell and get to play).

 

[Wolfspider]

Correcting misinformation. Having an opinion is fine, as long as it's an informed one. When people spout off things that have been debunked thoroughly (like DDI being necessary), it raises my intellectual ire and I have to correct it.

I think part of the problem with the impressions about DDI being necessary for play is because WotC is referring to that information as Core (even if it isn't REALLY core).

In any case, I've also gotten an impression, not completely reasonable, that WotC is trying to imply that D&D is not fun (or at least not as fun sexy cool as 4e). Sure, they don't say such in so many words, but I remember reading a playtest report praising 4e that basically said that trying to play the same kind of encounter in v3.5 would have made him throw up. Throwing up isn't fun, at least not to me.

I'm not exactly sure that claiming that the new edition will be more fun is actually a bad thing to do. Why would you switch to a new edition if it wasn't going to more fun than the last? This approach just rubbed me wrong, and apparently it had the same effect on others.

 

[Rauol_Duke]

Throwing up isn't fun, at least not to me.

Provide evidence of this claim, or retract it because it's a dishonest statement.

 

[Wolfspider]

Provide evidence of this claim, or retract it because it's a dishonest statement.

Heh heh heh.

 

[Kzach]

Greyhawk is being "killed off" because hardly anyone likes it. There's a reason it's been in a coma for over a decade.

I'd argue the opposite. I think it is Greyhawk's popularity that has forced their hand in dropping it as the core setting because too many people were displeased with its treatment in 3.x

By dropping it as the core setting, they no longer face the ire of GH fans for ruining their setting.

And before you try and tell me it's WotC's setting, I'd refer you to any die-hard GH fan who would argue vehemently that it is the fan's setting

 

[The Little Raven]

I think part of the problem with the impressions about DDI being necessary for play is because WotC is referring to that information as Core (even if it isn't REALLY core).

Got a link to where WotC calls DDI's content "core?" I've seen them refer to future PHB/MM/DMGs as "core," with the implication that "core" means "will be referenced by the SRD."

In any case, I've also gotten an impression, not completely reasonable, that WotC is trying to imply that D&D is not fun (or at least not as fun sexy cool as 4e). Sure, they don't say such in so many words, but I remember reading a playtest report praising 4e that basically said that trying to play the same kind of encounter in v3.5 would have made him throw up. Throwing up isn't fun, at least not to me.

So, because a person says HE is having more fun with 4e than HE would with 3e in the same situation means that HE'S saying YOU'RE not having fun with 3e? That sounds awfully close to ascribing a motivation to him that doesn't exist anywhere but in your head.

I'm not exactly sure that claiming that the new edition will be more fun is actually a bad thing to do. Why would you switch to a new edition if it wasn't going to more fun than the last? This approach just rubbed me wrong, and apparently it had the same effect on others.

So, people saying they have more fun with the new version of your favorite game than the old version rubs you the wrong way... maybe you should figure out why someone else liking the newest version more than your favorite version makes you so upset, since it's in no way their fault that you feel that way. You (and others) seem to be creating statements (like they keep saying 3e wasn't fun for anyone) based on your personal feelings about previous editions, rather than any actual facts.

 

[The Little Raven]

I'd argue the opposite. I think it is Greyhawk's popularity that has forced their hand in dropping it as the core setting because too many people were displeased with its treatment in 3.x

They weren't pleased with it's treatment in 2e either, when WotC tried to revive it with a few sourcebooks. The fact that sales led WotC to cease printing those books and the fact that the only Greyhawk-specific book released in 3e's tenure (the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer) points more to it's unpopularity than anything else.

If Greyhawk was as popular as you seem to think, we'd have seen some kind of support for it, since turning their back on such a large revenue source would be foolish for a company to do. The fact that their market research told them not to speaks volumes to me.

And before you try and tell me it's WotC's setting, I'd refer you to any die-hard GH fan who would argue vehemently that it is the fan's setting

Yeah, and Star Wars fans can argue that Lucas doesn't own it, the fans do... but that doesn't change the fact that they're 100% wrong as far as the laws of ownership are concerned.

 

[Umbran]

Provide evidence of this claim, or retract it because it's a dishonest statement.

Mourn, the statement began with "I find it..." Last time I checked that signified that the statement that followed was personal opinion. You are free to find that opinion unfounded or not, as you please. You may politely request he offer some reasons why he feels this is true - but to not make demands like this, please.

The OP asked for this to remain civil, and your aggressive stance isn't in line with that. You are coming across as browbeating, and that gets in the way of honest exchange and expression.

That goes for everyone here - you are to treat the opinions of others with respect. If you cannot do that, please don't post in this thread.

 

[Wolfspider]

Got a link to where WotC calls DDI's content "core?" I've seen them refer to future PHB/MM/DMGs as "core," with the implication that "core" means "will be referenced by the SRD."

According to the Unofficial D&D 4e News Page here, there is a podcast that states:

"The meaning of "Core": will include expansions and D&D Insider materials, not just the first three books, when referred to by WotC."

*shrugs* Make of that what you will.

So, because a person says HE is having more fun with 4e than HE would with 3e in the same situation means that HE'S saying YOU'RE not having fun with 3e? That sounds awfully close to ascribing a motivation to him that doesn't exist anywhere but in your head.

Of course not. But if someone says that something you like is as pleasant as vomiting, it's pretty hard (at least for me) not to get at least a little miffed.

So, people saying they have more fun with the new version of your favorite game than the old version rubs you the wrong way... maybe you should figure out why someone else liking the newest version more than your favorite version makes you so upset, since it's in no way their fault that you feel that way. You (and others) seem to be creating statements (like they keep saying 3e wasn't fun for anyone) based on your personal feelings about previous editions, rather than any actual facts.

People liking something doesn't rub me raw. It's feeling that they are disparaging my enjoyment of the older edition that is the cause of this friction.

Keep in mind that I've already admitted that my responses are messy and irrational. You won't find reasons or ironclad evidence behind many of my complaints.