Why won't you switch?

[billd91]

Well, the point of change is innovation. Without change, there can be no innovation. Perhaps the game will not substantially reflect prior editions, but why is that a bad thing?

I disagree that the point of change is innovation. Change doesn't always lead to, nor is always intended to lead to, innovation.
But innovation isn't always good either. Whether a change is innovative or not, it's got to win you over by showing itself to be better than what preceded it.
It's one of my main beefs with so-called computer innovation. Plenty of people in the industry are always pushing innovation. That's good to an extent, not not when the innovation is less effective than what came before it.

 

[Celebrim]

New coke is interesting.

In Blind Taste tests, new Coke did WAY better than classic AND pepsi (and I agree with this, I always thought classic coke was nowhere as good as Pepsi) but a minoirty of people were able to make their concerns dwarf and influence others.

Will we see the same with 4E via 3.5?

New Coke is interesting. In fact, it's ought to be part of the required curricula of study for alot of different disciplines. You can learn alot from it.

One thing your analysis neglects is that the minority here were right. That is to say, in competition with old coke, new coke lost. Outside of a few small niche markets, 'new coke' doesn't exist anymore. If the minority of customers where wrong, 'classic coke' would have eventually lost to 'new coke' and become its own niche market.

My personal feeling is that New Coke was a very good product based on very flawed market understanding. In particular, they failed to recognize the limitations of a 'sip test' in determining whether someone would prefer the product. Pepsi does win blind sip tests. And it does do better among children than adults, and that fact hasn't changed in decades. But, Coke still outsells Pepsi. The reason is that sweeter drinks do better in 'sip tests', but don't do as well on a majority of adult palletes when drunk for longer periods.

So, will we see the same with 4E via 3.5?

 

[Celebrim]

1e was "too anime"? I didn't know excessive anime influence was a problem dating back to the late 1970's in D&D design.

I'm pretty sure that in the '70s, it's not excessive anime influence, but excessive 'Kung Fu' influence. Everybody was kung fu fighting. Especially in this case, Dave Carradine.

 

[Talislan]

New coke is interesting.

In Blind Taste tests, new Coke did WAY better than classic AND pepsi (and I agree with this, I always thought classic coke was nowhere as good as Pepsi) but a minoirty of people were able to make their concerns dwarf and influence others.


Will we see the same with 4E via 3.5?

Coca-cola is formulated slightly differently in different regions of the world to account for the differences in cultural taste.

I'm not sure this would work for 4E.

 

[Wolfspider]

So fess up, which of us is the Dragonophile

Dragonophile?

 

[Rauol_Duke]

snip...there's a spellscale (from Races of the Dragon) in the current one.

Eww... I hear there's a shot you can get that will clear that right up now.

 

[AllisterH]

I'm pretty sure that in the '70s, it's not excessive anime influence, but excessive 'Kung Fu' influence. Everybody was kung fu fighting. Especially in this case, Dave Carradine.

Wasn't this the era of the "Saturday/Sunday bad-dubbing chinese wirefu movie". I know Kung-Fu the series was popular at the time but I thoguht itself became popular because everyone was watching those horrendous dubs.

 

[billd91]

New coke is interesting.

In Blind Taste tests, new Coke did WAY better than classic AND pepsi (and I agree with this, I always thought classic coke was nowhere as good as Pepsi) but a minoirty of people were able to make their concerns dwarf and influence others.


Will we see the same with 4E via 3.5?

But it wasn't really a minority of people. Blind taste tests have their own biases built in because they, by necessity, focus on the first impression of a flavor. A more complex flavor, which many people assert Classic Coke has, does relatively better over a longer time and when more of the soda is consumed.
Plus, you messed with brand identity. Coke drinkers were Coke drinkers, not rehashed Pepsi clone drinkers.

To push this back to the D&D comparison...
Watch for differences in impressions of 4e between first impression and more experience. What may play well at first blush might become tedious in a longer term. Clearly, extended good impressions is one of the design goals of 4e. We'll see how well the designers accomplish it.

They are definitely making changes to the brand identity. And this looks to be the edition that diverges from the history of D&D more than any other. Will it work for them or turn around and bite them?

 

[Celebrim]

Wasn't this the era of the "Saturday/Sunday bad-dubbing chinese wirefu movie". I know Kung-Fu the series was popular at the time but I thoguht itself became popular because everyone was watching those horrendous dubs.

No, Kung Fu the series is from 1972-1975. The era of 'badly dubbed chinese movie on UHF and Betamax' is more like 1975-1985. Most of the real classics of the genera don't even exist until after the 'Kung Fu' series has concluded its run.

 

[Wolfspider]

They are definitely making changes to the brand identity. And this looks to be the edition that diverges from the history of D&D more than any other. Will it work for them or turn around and bite them?

Inquiring mind want to know.