Why would anyone become a lich?

[fafhrd]

Had one of my PCs become a vampire in some fashion, I would probably not penalize them for a lack of bloodsucking. My game was very much by-the-book, and as I said the vampire writeup does not specify the need. For those of you who are about to counter with "But the PC races don't specify the need to eat, either!", I would point out that the starvation rules in the DMG inflict nonlethal damage, to which undead are immune. So even if vampires do, in fact, need to feed, there is no penalty for a vampire who refuses to do so. Effectively, then, they do not need to feed.

It's timely that Libris Mortis addresses a lot of the questions posed in this thread. It has rules to handle the wide variety of Undead appetites with meaningful penalties. It also addresses the question of retention of the senses. Apparently, scent and taste are preseved and it is the sense of touch which is the most hampered of the lot. Of course, you can run these things any way you like, but now there is a RAW precedent.

 

[rowport]

I think Klaus has the right idea here. For an independent Wizard, Lichdom is the perfect thing; it's doable alone (no outside or divine help), there are no distractions (no stopping for food, bathroom breaks, or scratching an itchy back), and there are no daylight limitations, along with relative immortality. Also, don't discount the nigh-invulnerability of Demi-lichdom, and the soul-freeing aspect for contemplation that this brings.

I could see some programmers I know aspiring to lichdom, the way you describe it.

 

[Tiberius]

It's timely that Libris Mortis addresses a lot of the questions posed in this thread. It has rules to handle the wide variety of Undead appetites with meaningful penalties. It also addresses the question of retention of the senses. Apparently, scent and taste are preseved and it is the sense of touch which is the most hampered of the lot. Of course, you can run these things any way you like, but now there is a RAW precedent.

Neat. I'll have to pick up that book should I ever run a D&D game again. I love undead!

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Like, say, by pumping said barbarian full of negative energy and paralyzing him for the rest of his life with a touch attack?

And what Undead Wizard wouldn't have a Ring of Free Action or a Free Action spell memorized at the very least. Try grappling that Barbie!

 

[green slime]

Stupid flame-causing pointless comment removed

 

[Hida Bukkorosu]

To add to this frame of thought, is there any reason a Lich would not take their phylactery, put it in a small steel vault, cast transmute rock to mud on a random patch of floor, and then transmute it back to stone, and then decorate over the spot? In other words, put it somewhere where not only was it well-guarded, but buried?

Another wild thought - a Lich in Eberron may well pay House Kundarak (the banking house) to protect its phylactery. Now THAT would make a heck of an Eberron adventure - you have to break into a Kundarak Bank undetected, and steal the phylactery of your arch-enemy, before you go after him!

someone's taken Evil Overlord Rule #5 to heart "The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness."

 

[painandgreed]

My own personal take is that if you have the power to become a lich, then you have the power to maintain your previous appearance either physically or through illusion. Trouble is, that becoming a lich is a dangerous process that can cause mental instability. The vast majority of the lichs that adventuring parties run into such as in D2, are these mentally unstable "failures". One of the Red Wizards is a lich that maintained his appearance in 2E by preserving his body and wearing perfume so that he did not cause fear as a normal lich. In my campaign, there is a lich that maintains an appearance as an elf and poses as the castellan while keeping various undead in the basement as "the lich" for adventures looking to kill him. For those actually looking for knowledge or to purchase something, he leads them downstairs, they state their request, and then he leads them upstairs to wait for the lich's response, which he will bring them later.

 

[Felon]

Like, say, by pumping said barbarian full of negative energy and paralyzing him for the rest of his life with a touch attack?

No, barbarians tend to make Fortitude saves.

And what Undead Wizard wouldn't have a Ring of Free Action or a Free Action spell memorized at the very least. Try grappling that Barbie!

I'm not sure if you mean Freedom of Movement, but that's not on the wiz/sor list. It's on the bard's, the cleric's, the druid's, and the ranger's, but not the wizard's.

Not to hijack the thread on the topic, but grappling in 3e is a pretty tried-and-true way of hosing up an NPC arcane caster. Doesn't alway work--few things are 100% foolproof--but it's often extremely effective.

 

[Sejs]

No, barbarians tend to make Fortitude saves.

Granted, however that won't help him to avoid the damage, and he only has to fail that fort save once and his life is over. And of course, this is on top of the standard packet of wizard "what do I do if I get grappled" spells. *shrug* Of course the same thing can be said of a vampire wizard, so take it however you like.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

I'm not sure if you mean Freedom of Movement, but that's not on the wiz/sor list. It's on the bard's, the cleric's, the druid's, and the ranger's, but not the wizard's.

That's what I meant... sorry, I still catch myself reverting to 2E terminology. Anyway, seeing how Grappling has become the end-all be-all way of getting rid of spell casters I can't see how some high level wizard wouldn't have a Ring of Freedom of Movement created for him/her. When I play arcane spellcasters it is downright necessary and I aquire one ASAP. Anyway, what about the Lich casting Gaseous Form with the Still Spell feat? If I remember right Liches are immune to cold attacks... multiple stillspell cones of cold and ice storms cast at point blank range could come in handy. Then again, I may be still thinking of 2E so please forgive me if they aren't.

Personally I agree with the Van Rickten's Guide to Liches (yes, I know it is a 2e resource) that Liches should have spells that the PC's have never seen before... they've been hidden away researching magic so why shouldn't they. If I had a group that was so cocky about their ability to grapple said Lich I'd just make sure there was some nice and nasty new spell. Something dealing with acid would be nice or a cloud of hallucinogenic gas (geared against High Fort save classes) that followed the lich around (they don't have to breath) would be effective too. Yes, some would call it cheating. I call it being realistic. A Lich researching spells for centuries is only going to research the spells in the PHB? Nonsense.