Will "any" class be hindered by armor then? ..and elimination of CON?

[Voss]

Hmm. I see benefits in most of the other changes they've made, and none are as huge as stripping out one of the base attributes.

Wizard schools weren't a focus until 2nd, multiclassing as it is now is essentially made for 3e (and doesn't work well), and the flavor stuff changes with campaign settings anyway.

 

[Cadfan]

I predict constitution will still be useful in 4e, and for more than just hit points and fort saves. We're getting dragonborn as a PHB race, and in the past WOTC has used constitution as the stat that drives abilities like breath weapons. There's room for constitution to be used as the powering stat for abilities which stem from physical stamina.

 

[mmadsen]

I never undestood the need to give any class heavy armor proficiency at level one, since you cannot afford heavy armor at level one anyway! Why not just have fighter-types get light armor proficiency at level 1, medium at level 2, and heavy at level 3? That way, multiclassing to dip one level for the heavy armor cannot be done, but the actual fighter-type isn't really harmed by it since it would take level 3 to be able to afford heavy armor anyway.

Why not make armor proficiency just another feat on the Fighter's bonus feat list?

 

[Lanefan]

Hush, now. Don't you know that the ranger has always been about being lightly armored, stealthy, and fragile? C'mon, what else would you expect from the class that represents the archetypal frontiersman and survivalist?

The "archetypal frontiersman and survivalist" would, I think, be anything but fragile. Light armour? Sure. Stealthy? Sure. Fragile? Not if they want to last very long...

Lanefan

 

[Mistwell]

Sorry, but the cost for Splint mail is within random wealth for a first level fighter. Both splint and banded are well within the expected wealth gain from level 1->2.

The maximum for a first level character is 240 (and that is the max for any character - with most being lower). Splint costs 200. The average starting gold is 150, not enough. And even if you could afford it, you would be eliminating something else critical, like a weapon or regular equipment. Realistically, first level characters are not going to have better than scale mail, and most will choose a chain shirt or studded leather.

As for second level, I do not think it would hurt the game to delay heavy proficiency to third. Would it really hurt your games that much to delay medium armor until level 2, and heavy to level 3? I don't think it would, and it would solve a lot of problems.

 

[mmadsen]

The talk fo wizards not worrying about armor anymore begs the question: will ANY class be hindered by armor? Will the rogue be hindered in armor? WIll the ranger? If they're dropping armor penalties for the wizard, I would think they'll do it across the board. Why bother with modifiers?

You seem...angry.

In real life, armor is heavy and hot, and a helm can greatly restrict sight and hearing. I would expect armor to hinder a one's ability to travel long distance on foot, to perform manual labor in the sun, to climb over obstacles, etc. -- but those are all things a trained Roman legionary was expected to do in "medium" armor and a modern soldier might do in modern body armor.

I wouldn't expect a wizard to be strong, fit, and accustomed to wearing heavy armor in the hot sun -- just as I wouldn't expect an engineer to be -- but if he was, why shouldn't he be able to function in armor?

Certainly many fantasy characters wear armor and use magic, and it was quite normal in 1E for an elf fighter/magic-user to wear chainmail.

Also, what's the point of constitution? Every other stat has a class associated with it..yet CON does not. WHy make it aprime stat? WHy not have a class associated with it?
I think if it's just going to be the petty modifer that it is, they should do away with it. It has very little game effect..it's essentially your hit points anyways, so why bother to have the extra statistic? Why not just base your FORT off ofyour hps?

I don't know if you're trying to be serious or facetious, but I wouldn't mind seeing Strength and Constitution rolled into one stat, with a feat or two -- or whatever mechanic -- for characters who are strong but fragile, or hardy but weak.