Will D&D ever be able to regain a base of "casual" players?
- Thread starter Clavis
- Start date
Oni
First Post
Heh, well I was speaking specifically of casual tabletop gamers, which definitely exist.
I do think you have a point though, for something to appeal to casual gamers it needs to be accessible. If you look at all types of gamers overall, it seems pretty reasonable to me to think that tabletop rpg's probably have a lower percentage of casual players than many other types of games.
It's a matter of time and devotion. If you think of them as currency your game has to be cheap enough to buy into for it to be successful in attracting casual gamers. In my experience with people that I would classify as casual gamers they definitely gravitate toward rules light, either by initial design or by ignoring/dropping everything from a system until it is rules light.
It's a definite plus if a game can function on multiple levels of complexity. For instance I've seen plenty of casual players playing video games that might not be typified as casual but they still enjoy them because they know enough of the game to get by and really don't need or care about anything else beyond that. It does say something about the old pre-4e fighter wizard paradigm, having a simpler option isn't a bad thing.
Thasmodious
First Post
What you describe here is my players. Most of them were at one time, in their youth, hardcore players, but they have turned casual in their old age. The group I have now got together around 2000, although a couple of us have been gaming together since the 70s. I DM the game, I am the only one to own any 3e or 4e books, the only one with a DDI subscription, the only one who spends time on gaming blogs/forums/websites, the only one who knows the rules. I had to brow beat them to plan their characters beyond one level in 3e (and am quite happy that planning ahead is not nearly as required in 4th). They once mocked me for making up rules as we went along because I had some guards take the withdrawal action and they had never heard of such a thing (this was after a couple of years of playing 3e). Yeah, the casual gamer is still alive and well.
It's an age thing, in a lot of ways. Teenagers and college students have a lot of free time and are often much more heavily into their hobbies. Exceptions abound of course, from the driven college student to the 35 year old "bachelor" gamer who is as hardcore as they come. But by the time you throw kids, wives, and regular lives into the mix, everyone is a casual gamer.
Derulbaskul
Adventurer
No, hard core gamers play the game, run the game and buy the product. If I'm going to fly to the USA it will be for a business deal of some magnitude that cannot be executed in Singapore, Australia or another country where the immigration officers are civilised.
Mercurius
Legend
You took the words right out of my mouth, Oni.
You're overthinking, imo. We don't need an "independent rubric for measurement," just some basic definitions to work with, based on a few criteria: How much time one spends thinking about RPGs, on forums, reading books, etc; How many books owned/how much one spends regularly; How frequently one plays or wants to play; and I would add, knowledge of the hobby's history and culture.
I'll posit three categories:
CASUAL: May own rule books, but only a few and only for the purpose of playing. Rarely thinks about gaming outside of their session. Plays no more than once a week, probably less (has a hard time commiting to more than once or twice a month). Almost by definition only plays, never DMs (except maybe trying it once or twice). Doesn't go on internet forums about gaming, at least not more than once or twice to check things out (may run quickly the other way). Definitely doesn't know what "The Forge" is.
SERIOUS: Owns many game books, perhaps a few shelves worth. Buys books on a semi-regular basis, but selectively (and not necessarily to play; may be for "idea-mining," entertainment reading, etc). Thinks about RPGs frequently, even daily, but may go days or even weeks without picking up a game book or playing. Plays frequently but probably not more than once a week, and only one campaign at a time. May or may not go on internet forums frequently. May or may not know what "The Forge" is.
HARDCORE: RPGs are central to one's hobby/entertainment life. Owns many game books, probably hundreds if not thousands. Buys books on a monthly basis, spending a significant portion of disposable income. Either has a game room or wants a game room. May play in multiple campaigns at once. Basically wants to play as much as possible. Probably goes on internet forums; almost certainly has logins on ENWorld, RPG.Net, etc. Knows what the "Forge" is, has assigned GNS theory to oneself.
Or something like that. I would think that 95% of participants on this board are at least Serious gamers, with a good chunk being Hardcore. Actually, if you look at post counts an even larger portion of posts are from Hardcore gamers.
Speaking for myself, I'd categorize myself as a "Serious" gamer, with bouts of "Serious Plus." The group I currently DM is comprised of myself and five casual gamers, all 30-40-something males who haven't played since college or even before.
Another point is that there is no way to really even answer this question without being anecdotal. How many other gamers do you really come in contact with on a regular basis? Even if you are active in your local community, hang out at the FLGS, we're talking a few dozen maybe? And aren't they by definition other Serious to Hardcore gamers?
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Doug McCrae
Legend
That's a brilliant definition of casual.
You're kidding, right? I mean, said books are for six gaming systems over 8 years (D&D3, D&D3.5, d20 Modern, Star Wars RCR, Star Wars Saga, and D&D4, plus a couple of one-off games like Call of Cthulu d20 and Wheel of Time d20) and of course I only bring what I need for my current PC in the game I'm playing in (so for D&D it's usually just a PHB and one or two supplements; with Character Builder-derived power cards these days, I don't think I'll need more than that unless I'm DMing).
You do realize you just described an independent rubric, right?
Mercurius
Legend
Ah yes, I suppose you're right. Maybe I should have said that we don't need a strictly defined rubric, just general guidelines. My definitions were meant more as descriptive than definitive...the point being, "casual" is just a common word, as is "serious" and "hardcore" (slang). We don't need strict parameters to know what they mean, although it doesn't hurt to have general guidelines, which I gave.
Intense_Interest
First Post
I disagree that there is even an identifiable cohort of "casual" Roleplayers in the first place.
I put the burden of proof upon the OP: What exactly is a "casual" player, and how is that person different demographically from any other gamer? How can you say we've lost a group if you never show who you are talking about in the first place?
ETA: Specifically, is the entire division based on how much money you spend on RPGs or how much time you spend playing them? Because I know personally how demographically slippery the "doesn't play" and "doesn't pay" groups can be once inserted into an actual play-group.
The only difference between a casual player and a hardcore player, in my eyes, is whether they play once a week or not.
I put the burden of proof upon the OP: What exactly is a "casual" player, and how is that person different demographically from any other gamer? How can you say we've lost a group if you never show who you are talking about in the first place?
ETA: Specifically, is the entire division based on how much money you spend on RPGs or how much time you spend playing them? Because I know personally how demographically slippery the "doesn't play" and "doesn't pay" groups can be once inserted into an actual play-group.
The only difference between a casual player and a hardcore player, in my eyes, is whether they play once a week or not.
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