Will the Magic System be shown the door?

Arkhandus said:
...waste more than 1 or 2 good slots on weak spells just because they're handy utility at the moment.
Personally, I'd change that to unlimited use or just handwave it as "basic magey-handiwork" at that point, but apart from that, your write-up sounds incredibly nice... and similar to the Tome of Battle: You just prepare that number of spells, regardless of level. Basta.

Or just say 1st to 3rd counts as one slot, 4th to 6th as two slots and 7th to 9th as three slots, and then just get, let's say 1 + 1/3 level + casting-statbonus of spell slots, if you really want to keep that distinction. Done.

Then kill all spells, that get stupid if recast one-hundred times per day, and leave it to the DM to set the re-charge period.

EDIT: I've got the feeling, that this thread is totally drifting into house rule territory.
 

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Mark CMG said:
Will the Magic System survive the upgrade to the next edition of D&D? If so, perhaps with what changes? If not, what will replace it?

But I like the Vancian magic system with spell slots!

Why is everyone out to change the things about D&D I like? :uhoh:
 

Olgar Shiverstone said:
But I like the Vancian magic system with spell slots!

Why is everyone out to change the things about D&D I like? :uhoh:

Sqeaky hinges. People who like things the way they are aren't given to complain.
 

GreatLemur said:
See, I would dig the hell out of that. My ideal future for D&D magic would be a long list of effects and modifiers rather than spells (that is, Energy Blast would be an effect, with potential modifiers like Energy Type, Damage, Range, Area of Effect, etc.) with selection of about three or four different systems (like prepared Vancian, spontaneous Vancian, at-will, spell points, casting checks, etc.) that can all use this same set of effects. Then individual DMs could decide which components are used in which magic types in their own worlds.

It's pretty unlikely, though, at least as part of the core rules. D&D generally stays away from that level of complexity and modularity.

GreatLemur - have you ever tried Mutants & Masterminds? You build your own powers, and the rules are very good at letting you do exactly what you describe here. I think with a little imagination you can change the flavor to fit D&D as well.
 

Olgar Shiverstone said:
But I like the Vancian magic system with spell slots!

Why is everyone out to change the things about D&D I like? :uhoh:

If the decision were mine, I would change it becausey a) I dislike it - and in particular the design headaches surrounding making a mechanically fun capital-G game or adventure using it and b) as mentioned above, WotC at least at one time apparently believed new players cycle in and out on a regular basis, and the vast majority of them would have non-Vancian, non-spell slot expectations.

Also, I'm not sure the OP was so much advocating it as posing the question.
 

The Vancian system is a sacred cow, but Wotc has been presenting a number of alternatives to it for years now. Personally, I would like to see a hybrid Vancian system that had a set of abilities usable per encounter or even at will, and a set of "spells" prepared in "spell slots". Let's face it, unlimited teleports would be abusable and unbalancing - but i'm not so sure if lower power magic missle ability that a mage could zing out whenever he feels like it would be so bad. Healing should be limited I think - running out of HP should be the controlling factor in continuing with an adventure.

While we're on looking at the spell system, I'd love to see many of the "save-or-die" spells removed. At high levels (the most problematic part of D&D on the whole) we shouldn't have characters dying at an advanced rate. I've seen adventures where a cautious, well-prepared party had to perform 5 resurrections.
 

lvl20dm said:
The Vancian system is a sacred cow, but Wotc has been presenting a number of alternatives to it for years now. Personally, I would like to see a hybrid Vancian system that had a set of abilities usable per encounter or even at will, and a set of "spells" prepared in "spell slots". Let's face it, unlimited teleports would be abusable and unbalancing - but i'm not so sure if lower power magic missle ability that a mage could zing out whenever he feels like it would be so bad. Healing should be limited I think - running out of HP should be the controlling factor in continuing with an adventure.

While we're on looking at the spell system, I'd love to see many of the "save-or-die" spells removed. At high levels (the most problematic part of D&D on the whole) we shouldn't have characters dying at an advanced rate. I've seen adventures where a cautious, well-prepared party had to perform 5 resurrections.
You mean something like this?

DogBackward said:
Well, I came up with a system based on some musings of Monte Cook's over at his website. I haven't done much with it yet, and it's gonna be a big project, but it would address that very concern.

At the most basic level, you have a mana pool that regenerates at the rate of one per round, as long as you don't cast a spell in that round. Simple spells cost a certain amount of mana, and consist of the simple, easy-to-use effects that aren't a big deal if they can be done all day (albeit with a rest period of a few round sin between to let your mana regenerate), such as simple damage, defense, and such things.

Then you have Complex spells, which do the more powerful or bigger effect. These include Cure X spells, summoning spells, Polymorph, and the other big ones, as well as any spell with a casting time of longer than one round (because it makes sense... they take longer to cast because they're... complex spels). The thing is, that any Mana spent on a Complex spell isn't regained until you get your 8 hours of rest.

It comes together with both ideas. You can do the basic stuff all you want, with a few rounds of rest in between. But you still have to manage your resources when using the bigger, more widely effective spells. Not only because you won't be able to use the Complex spells but so many times a day, but also because using Complex spells means you have less Mana left to use your Simple spells, as well. Best of both worlds, as it were.

The main problem is that it'll take a ton of work to get running, for just one person (me, that is). I need to either come up with a whole new list of spells designed for this idea, or go through all the existing spells and divide them into either Simple or Complex.

But if WotC used this system for 4e, I think it would address everybody's concerns on the matter. It would be slightly more complex, but I've actually tried it with a sample spell list, and it's not much more complicated than keeping track of which spells you've prepared and which ones you cast.

I guess this thread is moving kinda fast, but I just posted this not even two hours ago.
 

I don't think it will survive completely intact, but whatever it is that replaces it will need to have this property: individual "spells" will still exist, so that money can be made by filling pages with them in supplements. WotC will never go with an Ars Magica or Elemetns of Magic system, for instance ... there's no money in it.

That holds true for the brand in general, IMO: WotC won't create modular systems for anything, because specific systems fill pages. Classes fill pages, spells fill pages, feats fill pages, special abilities fill pages, monsters fill pages.
 


I hope not: I want D&D to be D&D, not a D&D branded generic fantasy game.

Something like reserve feats in the core rules would go over well with me, though...
 

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