D&D 4E Will we be able to play 4E without minis?

[AZRogue]

Reading up on everything lately i've realized that I and my gaming group are narrative players at heart, with strong gamist leanings. We prefer the dynamic and exciting story that we craft with our sessions and no matter what we say we want, we always through our own choices end up turning the campaign into an Epic one where we end up calling down Avatars (Orcus and Grazz't and Moradin, in one place) to battle each other while trying to steal a dragon's horde for our own gain and, at the same time, the artifact hidden there that would save some king's daughter (can't remember why, she was just a side bonus "good deed for the day").

One of the things my group and I didn't care for after trying it was the minis. Just wasn't the same moving around the little chessboard as it was describing ourselves jumping and leaping all over the place.

So, needless to say, I'm not too happy with the squares as movement change in 4E but it's minor. I can figure out that 6 squares equals 30 feet without hurting myself.

When I start our 4E campaign I'm going to be doing it without miniatures for the most part, though we may drag out the little plastic suitcase for special encounters or dungeon crawls with many, many opponents to worry about (kobold invasions and such).

My question, if anyone in the "know" can answer me, is how difficult will this be? Beyond the movement thing (and "range, obviously) will I have a lot of trouble running my encounters without using minis? Has anyone playtested the game without using any minis?

 

[Professor Phobos]

About as well as you could do it now with 3.5, I suspect.

 

[AZRogue]

About as well as you could do it now with 3.5, I suspect.

I didn't try, more's the pity. It seemed like a lot of trouble with Attacks of Opportunity and such (Attacks of Opportunity were kind of a pain for a while until we put some time in). But I've read that Attacks of Opportunities have been simplified, which bodes well for me. I'm just wondering if anyone who's seen more of the rules could comment about how they think it would go. Simplified rules in regards to spacing, movement, and such would be great for me.

 

[Mistwell]

I think it will be about as difficult or easy as it currently is under 3.5, though maybe a LITTLE easier to do it without the minis in 4e. That's because they have simplified some rules, like attacks of opportunity, so it might be slightly easier to describe it without seeing it. But odds are you will see need it more often than not during combat, just like under 3.5.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

I did almost all of my 3.x playing without a map, I doubt 4th will be any different for me.

 

[AZRogue]

Well, hopefully they've REALLY simplified some of the movement-placement related rules. A few I could live with, and even enjoy. I just don't want to have to worry about 6 different things everytime a PC moves.






Maybe I'll just make the floors sticky. The other DM in my group ran a campaign where he allowed a player to earn Boots of Spider Climbing (after a lot of in-game legwork and a big fight) and then proceeded to make every wall we encountered from that point on "Slippery". That poor guy got his Boots at level 4 and never, not once, got to use them. Now that was entertainment.

 

[Peter LaCara]

One thing I like about squares is that I feel like they actually support narrative gaming without a map better than ranges in feet. If you're not tracking characters on a map, all you care about are speeds relative to the other characters. You know that if a character moves 7 squares instead of 6, he moves just sllliiiiightly faster than the 6 move guy. It doesn't matter exactly how far away from stuff he is. This just tells you that you give this character more leeway when his player asks, "Can I get to this guy on my turn?"

 

[HeinorNY]

I made that question in WOTC star wars forums when SAGA was released. At the launch and some weeks later SWSE was to me just a damn miniature game on steroids. Now I'm not as radical, but still have my reserves with that square book. Anyway, they answered me YES.

But I think you should change your question. Ask: Can I play 4E D&D without minis with the rules as they are presented in the book, without changing a word or adding a house rule?



They will proabably still answer a yes, but just between us, we know the game is being made with minis in mind.

 

[A'koss]

With the emphasis on mobile combat, more opponents/encounter, auras, opportunisitic attacks and generally more knocking opponents about the map, I suspect it will quite a bit more difficult to run a game without minis.

Personally, I'm all for it because it makes combat just that much more dynamic and tactics more important but if you don't like minis & maps you're going to have a tougher time at the table methinks...

 

[Grazzt]

I did almost all of my 3.x playing without a map, I doubt 4th will be any different for me.

Same here. (And Ive got plenty o miniatures thanks to Reaper). We usually just tossed some out on the table for marching order (yeah, 1e stuff) and pretty much left them as is. Rest o' the action was mental. No battlemaps, no figures, no worrying about positions, etc.